Our guest this week is Ivonne Kinser, VP of Marketing & Innovation for Avocados from Mexico, the innovative marketing organization that has delivered some truly remarkable results. In our fourth episode recorded live at last month's GroceryShop event in Las Vegas, we get the inside story of how AFM went from start-up to advertising on the Super Bowl.
Our guest this week is Ivonne Kinser, VP of Marketing & Innovation for Avocados from Mexico, the innovative marketing organization that has delivered some truly remarkable results. In our fourth episode recorded live at last month's GroceryShop event in Las Vegas, we get the inside story of how AFM went from start-up to advertising on the Super Bowl. We then dig into the details of how Ivonne and her team have elevated what could be seen as a commodity product to a highly in demand, powerful consumer brand. We also get Ivonne's perspective on how consumer and technology trends are intertwining, what it means to be channel agnostic, and how "learning agility" is key to career success.
But first we share our hot-takes on the past week in retail news, including what a tight labor market portends for interest rates and inflation, why the holidays seem to come earlier and earlier every year, and what to make of Prat Vemana joining Target as their new Chief Digital & Product Officer. We also discuss Poshmark going from from Wobbly Unicorn to Prized Possession, yet more layoffs at Peloton, and how Allbirds continues to take the D out of DTC. We wrap up with REI's decision to opt out of Black Friday and a trifecta of news from a little outfit called Amazon.
About Ivonne
Ivonne is the Vice President of Marketing and Innovation for Avocados From Mexico. Her chief responsibility is to lead a high-performance team and the innovation agenda that put Avocados From Mexico on the Fast Company 2021 list of “Most Innovative Companies in the World,” and top in the branding category. In 2022 Ivonne became the first Latina to be awarded with the American Marketing Association’s highest honor bestowed upon a deserving recipe, the Lifetime Achievement Award.
She has also been included in the list of “100 Most Influential Latinas in the U.S.” for two consecutive years, in 2021 and in 2022. In 2018, she became one of the five women honored with the Changing the Game Award in the Brainwave category, an award given by the prestigious She Runs It organization which recognizes women within the marketing industry who are true catalysts of innovation by fearlessly making bold moves and reinventing the rules of marketing to transform their brands and their organizations.
The previous year, the American Advertising Federation had included her in the list of “20 Women to Watch in Dallas Advertising” and awarded her the Shining Star Award, which recognizes women in the Dallas advertising industry who are breaking glass ceilings.
Over the span of more than 20 years in marketing, Ivonne has played leadership roles in multiple corporations representing multibillion brands, as well as in top advertising agencies such as Lintas, McCann Erickson Worldwide, and The Richards Group, working with well-known brands in almost every category. In 2014, she joined Avocados From Mexico as the Head of Digital Marketing, and in seven years she built the organization’s digital practice which became one of the most successful digital groups in terms of performance and innovation.
Under her leadership, AFM’s digital work won dozens of accolades and recognitions, including the only brand to be among the top two position on Merkle’s list of “Best Digital Super Bowl Campaigns” for five consecutive years, from 2016 through 2020; an ANA REGGIE Award in 2020 for Disrupted Use of Digital Technology; and a Gold (Sol De Oro) for AFM’s 2017 Super Bowl digital campaign in the category of Real-Time Content at the FIAP competition in Buenos Aires. This festival is recognized in the Latin American region as one of the two most important festivals, together with Cannes.
She has addressed hundreds of keynotes — across the nation and internationally — about Avocados From Mexico’s digital marketing successes, and she is a regular guest speaker at the IPADE, the top business school in Mexico.
Innovation, disruptive creativity, and a nontraditional approach to marketing are the hallmarks of Ivonne’s work.
About Us
Steve Dennis is an advisor, keynote speaker and author on strategic growth and business innovation. You can learn more about Steve on his website. The expanded and revised edition of his bestselling book Remarkable Retail: How To Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption is now available at Amazon or just about anywhere else books are sold. Steve regularly shares his insights in his role as a Forbes senior contributor and on Twitter and LinkedIn. You can also check out his speaker "sizzle" reel here.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks , The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and now in its second season, Conversations with CommerceNext! You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Be sure and check out Michael's latest venture for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue, his YouTube BBQ cooking channel!
Michael LeBlanc 00:06
Welcome to Remarkable Retail podcast, Season 5, Episode 14. Presented by MarketDial. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Steve Dennis 00:13
And I'm Steve Dennis.
Michael LeBlanc 00:15
And we are back, Steve. We're back home after another great conference and a round of interviews in Las Vegas settling in with a bonanza of great content and interviews for the people, right?
Steve Dennis 00:26
Yeah, I feel like it's been (inaudible) content a Lozza or Palooza or something, something like that. Yes, a lot, a lot of stuff in the can as, as they say.
Michael LeBlanc 00:35
We have a plethora of content for the balance of the year and actually stretching into early next. In this episode recorded live at Groceryshop 2022 in Vegas, 1.0. The first time we're in Vegas, Ivonne Kinser, VP Marketing and Innovation, Avocados from Mexico. Steve, why are we talking about avocados on the show?
Steve Dennis 00:55
Well, first of all, I love avocados. Second of all, I love the way Ivonne says guacamole, (crossover talk). But third, and probably most substantively really is I think it's a pretty remarkable story. The, the branding and innovation around avocados, as a, as a category has been pretty brilliant. And I think it's a really interesting story of how to think about creating. Well, it's an interesting story, I guess about a story, right? Because one of the things we talk about it being remarkable is not only to be different and unique, but to create a story that folks want to share. And I think what Ivonne and her team have done is pretty interesting.
Michael LeBlanc 01:37
Also, a shout out to the listeners that we continue to release for the first time ever. Bonus episodes of the show were all recorded live, all snack sized for about 15 minutes. The first one already out, was with Deborah Weinswig, the great Deb Weinswig and released today we're recording this on Friday. Christina Gustafson, SVP Content from Groceryshop gives us a bit of insight in the tradecraft of conferences and what makes them great and, and what was great about the Groceryshop event in Las Vegas. All right, now, let's move on to the news of the week. Let's start with US unemployment dropping to 3.5%. I mean, it, it, it's really wild to watch these, the same things happening in Canada, it's just unemployment continues to go down, not up, which is somewhat contrary into an overall narrative of more difficult economic times.
Steve Dennis 02:27
Yeah, I was listening to CNBC this morning, reporting this news. And again, it's Friday. So, this just came out. And it's really kind of a perverse, macro-economic picture in a way, you know, when you think about low unemployment. You would think well, that's generally a pretty good thing, right? If people aren't struggling as much, people have money to spend. But at the same time, part of what most people believe is driving inflation, is the tight labor market.
Steve Dennis 03:13
And there's a lot of concern, at least, as we're starting to record this, the markets were down on this news, because the belief is this means that the Federal Reserve is going to continue to raise interest rates and perhaps even raise them more aggressively than we were thinking just a couple of weeks ago. So, it really clouds the inflation outlook, I think. So, I think really, the more we talked about this last week, because we had an inkling that this might happen, you know, I just really suggest that, that's going to be tough to get inflation down. And the other thing that I guess is contributing a bit to the worries, continuing worries about inflation is the Saudis pulling back on oil production.
Michael LeBlanc 03:39
Yeah.
Steve Dennis 03:39
So, we've seen a lot of progress on oil prices coming down. Now, there's a suggestion that they're perhaps going to reverse course. So, that's definitely concerning for the economy overall in retail in particular.
Michael LeBlanc 03:54
Let's, let's, move on to Christmas. It seems to be coming a bit early, like you know, you, certain retailers, like you walk in Costco, and you know, they're decorating for Christmas in August, but now we're actually seeing lots of movement early, early days.
Steve Dennis 04:07
And well, it seems like for years, the holiday shopping period just keeps moving earlier and earlier. I think a big part of what is driving the move. So, so, Target actually just wrapping up this weekend, I believe, is their Deals Days. And then Amazon announced the second Prime Day, which is occurring the week that this episode is coming out. And there's just this general sense of trying to start earlier and I think a lot of that has to do with worries about the economy in general. But in particular, the excess inventory levels that, that we've talked about a bunch, and I think we'll, we'll touch on in another story in a second. So, yeah, it's, I think it's going to be, I feel like I say this almost every year, but I think this is actually going to be the most promotional holiday season in a really long time.
Michael LeBlanc 04:57
Let's talk about different things around Target. You mentioned Target, they've got a new CDO, CPO. What's going on there?
Steve Dennis 05:03
Yeah, they're bringing in this guy from Kaiser Perman-, Permanente, (inaudible) to say that incorrectly. So, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 05:10
Is that on the Kaiser Sauce School of, (crossover talk).
Steve Dennis 05:13
It's not Keyser Sauce, that is the health care company, I believe. He's actually got quite a lot of experience. I believe Home Depot or earlier in his career, maybe eBay. I think, number one, it's interesting to bring in the reason why I want to talk about the story. One, is I think it's interesting for a brand like Target, which has been so advanced in many cases in terms of driving digital innovation to bring in somebody from the outside. And I loved a quote that he had in the story announcing his appointment, that "digital is a team sport". And he talked a lot about breaking down silos, and you know, all the stuff that, that we've been talking about for years. So, it will be interesting to see, given how much Target has really created this hybrid strategy to begin with, to see where that goes. So, watch this space.
Michael LeBlanc 06:03
Some good news in the wobbly unicorn section. So, we're not going to do that again. This week. We've got Poshmark they got acquired.
Steve Dennis 06:12
Yeah, I don't know how to, I mean, I guess that's, I guess that's positive. So, Poshmark, is, is one of these wobbly unicorns. In the retail space, they've been growing quite a lot, but also hemorrhaging cash, for the most part. They got acquired by not sure how you say it exactly, Naver. That is the kind of the Korean Google. So, the fit there, I think is a little bit interesting, or perhaps lack of fit. But yeah, Poshmark, I think is, yeah, I think we've talked about this before as well, I think because of the revenue strength in a lot of these disruptor brands, but the lack of profitability and the decreased valuations, I do think we're going to continue to see a fair amount of consolidation. So, you know, I don't think this will be the first pretty sizable deal for some of these disruptive brands that we see unfold in the next few months. But I think it's about a $1.8 billion valuation. So, that's certainly good news for the investors, even though that's below, where they, where they were when they initially went public.
Michael LeBlanc 07:18
And we got a little more, more news, I guess how much more news is there to come from Peloton they're laying off, what was it, 500 people? I don't know how many people are going to be left at Peloton. I mean, what's left, (crossover talk),
Steve Dennis 07:29
Yeah, last one there, turn out the lights, I think. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, we were talking off mic about, you know, it's hard to think about a brand that has screwed things up more in the last, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 07:41
With so much potential, right, (crossover talk),
Steve Dennis 07:42
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, they, they, I mean, it's not like they were the first exercise equipment ever to, to be in the world. But they certainly created quite a splash in terms of their branding and product and integrated business model and just, you know, kind of all those things that are kind of characteristic of the digital age, and yet, they just created, you know, they expanded way too quickly, obviously. And that just created this, this huge effect. So, yeah, we're seeing continuing reduction in workforce, they apparently are about to announce a bunch more of their physical retail stores that are going to close. And then as we've touched on the last few weeks, they are creating these new wholesale partnerships. So, yet another brand taking the D out of the DTC.
Michael LeBlanc 08:28
Well, that's a great segue, a little bit of flash news from Allbirds, they're going to REI. So, doing the same thing writ large, right?
Steve Dennis 08:36
Yeah, yet another move here. I mean, I think Allbirds you know, they went public about a year ago now at very high valuation, that valuation has collapsed. And they've, they continue to open stores, their own stores. When I was down in New Zealand, I saw their beautiful new store in Auckland, it looks great in there, (crossover talk). It's doing (inaudible) business, but, you know it looks,
Michael LeBlanc 08:59
Yeah.
Steve Dennis 09:00
It looks fantastic. And, and now another wholesale partnership with an established retailer. So, going to REI gets them in, you know, more than 100 locations, I believe.
Michael LeBlanc 09:11
You know, soon we're going to be talking about Black Friday, Cyber Monday, but it's, it's, you know, with all these early sales, you know, we start to think about, or we start to think about the efficacy of these two holidays. REI announced they're permanently opting out of Black Friday. I guess they're going to close, close the head offices and close the stores. I suppose the servers will still be running, somebody will be keeping the lights on from that perspective. But do you think this is, this is a trend? I mean it as, as these things become each and every day earlier and earlier. Does, does it take the wind out of the sails of Black Friday and Cyber Monday?
Steve Dennis 09:49
Well, I think Black Friday and Cyber Monday continue to be very large volume days. I do and I've you know, I've talked about this for, for years. I think there's a lot of hype around those two days, that's, that's really out of proportion with the contribution. But I think the challenge for retailers is, if you don't participate, you know, you potentially leave a lot of money on the table. So, I don't expect that the biggest retailers are going to really change their, their strategies, fundamentally. I think what they're going to experience is that the sales get spread out over a longer period of time than they have historically. I think in the case of REI, you know, which has a more kind of purpose, driven mission, and is not such a big player. And you know, it's not a gift category, per se, it’s a little easier for them to, to make that decision. I, I, I think it's great personally, but, but I think it's a real strong signal to you know, your customers, as well, as you know, even more importantly, your, your associates,
Michael LeBlanc 10:37
Yeah, yeah. Something good to say about Macy's, which is kind of unique for us. And we don't often speak of Macy's in good terms, but they seem to be in a better condition for whatever reason, they seem to be in a better inventory situation than their peers. Now I say for whatever reason, but lots of commentary around just more focus on planning, and, and just recognizing that eventually this, the song was going to stop, and people are going to go back to normal lives and stop buying so much stuff, post COVID. Is that your assessment of how they got to where they are?
Steve Dennis 11:19
Yeah, well, the story in The Wall Street Journal was that not only reporting that Macy's rev-, inventory was, was only up about 7% compared to a bunch of folks, you know, we've talked about before, you know, Kohl's, Nike, TJ Maxx, you know, they are up 30, 40, 50%. So, big, big difference in terms of their inventory position, going into the fourth quarter. The story talked about both, how they were using some of their credit card data and other analytics, that kind of signaled to them earlier that sales were decelerating. And I guess, in general, their philosophy was to, to buy, you know, more tightly than some other players, I still, you know, we keep coming back to this. I'm still like, I believe that's true. I don't believe that some of the other companies we're talking about are necessarily in a much worse situation, analytically than Macy's is.
Steve Dennis 12:03
So, there's, there's still I think, a little bit more to this story. But, but absolutely, Macy's is not going to feel the level of desperation, perhaps than, than some of the other competitors will. I still think, you know, one of the things and this is a little bit inside baseball, but we don't really know, well, we know that a lot of retailers have been attempting to cancel orders. So, we don't really know how successful they will be until we see the next quarter's reports. But, but you know, if you can't cancel orders, and your sales aren't strong, you're going to continue to have significant inventory issues going into next year. How that will actually pla-, you know, pan out, I don't know, in Macy's case, you know, that looks like their revenue, their inventories are much more in line with how their revenues are likely to turn out. So, that will probably mean their, their margin performance is better than their peers.
Michael LeBlanc 13:11
Let's talk about Amazon to bring us home, a couple of three points of interest. One is they're pausing hiring, and but the se-, that's more at the corporate level, they're hiring staff, and then they, they put the fork into a cute little robot.
Steve Dennis 13:25
Yeah. So, they basically got a hiring freeze for their retail operations. And I think this is just part of, you know, seeing both a general slowdown in, in retail for Amazon. And there definitely seems to be a push on the part of the new leadership team there, Andrew Jassy and, and some of the new folks over retail to improve profitability. The addition of all these seasonal workers, of course, you know, there's a huge spike in demand during the holiday season. So, I think that's a pretty typical kind of performance. We've seen the same kind of reports from Target and Walmart. So, you know, that's also good, good for the, for the job market, I suppose. But, you know, again, they put more pressure on inflation. And then the other piece of news you mentioned is they, Amazon as part of their very aggressive test and learn program where experimenting with these, what's it called Scout the,
Michael LeBlanc 13:57
Yeah, yeah.
Steve Dennis 14:88
They're little delivery robots and, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 14:11
Cute little sidewalk thingy's,
Steve Dennis 14:14
Very cute zipping around your neighborhood delivering products, but apparently, ultimately, that's, that's not the direction they want to go. And so, they are shutting that down and laying off quite a few people or well, eliminating jobs, maybe, maybe many of those people will get jobs elsewhere.
Michael LeBlanc 14:33
Yeah, yeah.
Steve Dennis 14:35
I don't think that was clear from the story.
Michael LeBlanc 14:40
Yeah, I mean, my interpretation of that last part was, you know, Amazon at any given time is looking for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. So, maybe just reallocation versus, versus laying those, those folks off. But anyway, well, I'm sure that'll sort out. There's lots of capacity to absorb smart people out of Amazon anywhere in the business. All right. Well, that wraps up our news segment. Now just before we get to our great interview with Ivonne Kinser, VP of Marketing Innovation from Avocados from Mexico, let's hear from our sponsor.
Michael LeBlanc 15:26
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Steve Dennis 15:44
Well, Michael it has finally happened, we are nearly 100 episodes in and we're finally talking about one of my favorite topics in the world, avocados, and we've got the perfect person with us, Ivonne Kinser. Now you're the VP of Marketing and Innovation. Is that right from,
Ivonne Kinser 15:57
Yes, that's correct, (crossover talk), congratulations on, on your 100th Episode.
Steve Dennis 16:01
Thanks. Thanks.
Ivonne Kinser 16:01
Thank you for the invite. What an honor.
Steve Dennis 16:03
Well, we're, we're delighted to have you here. And maybe we could just start out by having you. We've known each other but we were just talking before we started. I've known you for a while. We both live in Dallas; I haven't seen you in person in ages. So, this is a thrill as well. But tell us a little bit about Avocados from Mexico, your personal and professional journey and just in general get to know you a little bit better before we jump in.
Ivonne Kinser 16:26
Sure. So, you know, I came to the US in 2001. And I actually came here, moved here one week before September 11. And I spent half of my career here working for multi-billion-dollar global brands, you know, when you're studying, I think you don't know what you don't know. And,
Steve Dennis 16:31
Sure.
Ivonne Kinser 16:32
And you're not sure what you want. So, but it's very attractive. Also, there's the multi-billion-dollar brands with the names etc. So, I, I spent half of my career here working for IPG Group of Companies, (inaudible) on an American Airlines account. Then, on the agency side, you always have the opportunity to work for multiple categories from retail, manufactures, CPG, etc. So, halfway through my career, I realized, I am really a transformational leader. I love transformation and innovation. So, I kind of moved towards startups and technology companies and companies that were inventing or reinventing themselves. So, to make a long story short, I ended up in Avocados from Mexico eight years ago. And it was a completely new organization. Actually, that was before the brand went into its first Super Bowl. So, it was pretty much an unknown brand. So, mostly that when they, their recruiter reached out to me and asked me if I was interested in going for an interview with Avocados from Mexico. I asked, what's that? So,
Steve Dennis 18:08
At one level, it's easy to understand. Right?
Ivonne Kinser 18:09
Right.
Steve Dennis 18:10
Avocados from Mexico, exactly. It's a little bit more to it than that, (crossover talk).
Ivonne Kinser 18:14
Exactly. I did try, like one of the most rewarding experiences in my career, because I was hired to build from the ground up the digital marketing department. And it turned out that today's one of the most, I will say forward thinking definitely in the prosperous industry, but also at the level of the sophisticated CPG brands.
Steve Dennis 18:37
Yeah. And so how did, how did the whole idea of branding avocados in that way even come about? And how did you get started with that whole thought process?
Ivonne Kinser 18:49
Yeah, that's a great story. Because actually, I always say that it wasn't supposed to be a brand. We're a commodity and fresh produce. But our CEO comes from the CPG category from Mission Foods. So, he has that brand building mentality and training. And he saw the opportunity to build a brand and, and there's a lot of I think nuances of the origin of avocados and being Mexico as a brand. Something that evokes a lot of positive emotions. So, we saw the opportunity to build a brand and this organization was created about eight, nine years ago with the purpose to build a brand in the US and increase the demands of (inaudible) for Mexico in the US. And I said, emphasize that because we're part of a Checkoff Program of the US Department of Agriculture. And so, we only market in the US we, we joke that we say we're not from Mexico, and we don't sell avocados. We're a marketing company in Dallas, Texas. that has the mission of building that brand and, and increasing demand.
Steve Dennis 20:05
Can you give us a little sense of you know, you mentioned, you know, thinking of avocados as a commodity. And then I realized that it didn't all happen overnight. But to go to having advertising on the Super Bowl like that's such a major investment. How did you get your head around? How much money to spend, how to think about the return on investment? It just seems like a really bold, bold move to, to make.
Ivonne Kinser 20:32
You're right. I know a lot of people ask how a small brand is going to spend that portion of its budget in a campaign like the Super Bowl, for example. And you know, the answer is that it was actually a very, very strategic decision. First of all, Avocados from Mexico hold 90% of the market share, but sometimes hold 100% of the market share because Mexico (inaudible). Mexico is the only place where avocados are available all year round with that volume that is volume enough to feed the, the appetite of America. And during the Super Bowl, which is the time of highest consumption.
Ivonne Kinser 21:01
We are pretty much by ourselves in the market. And when you think about it, the products that are in front of the TV viewers when they have the Super Bowl commercials in front of them. There are very few you have chips, you have sodas, you have beer, you have guacamole. That guacamole is unbranded, but it's ours, it's from Mexico. So, it was a decision of do we brand that product in the high guest advertising stage, or we missed that opportunity. So, for us, it was very strategic, and it has a huge payoff. But interestingly, we look at the TV spot as an excuse to launch a much bigger campaign in digital and PR that lasts for a month. Think about it, the TV spot is 30 seconds, but the, the digital campaigns that are very iconic for us, especially digital Super Bowl digital campaigns, last a month and deliver billions of impressions. So, it's the whole, the, the, the whole strategy around PR, TV and digital we're really mo-, have moved the needle for us and we have doubled the imports of Avocados from Mexico in only eight years and increased brand preference from 20% to 60%. So, that's pretty amazing.
Steve Dennis 22:49
That's great, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 22:50
Wow. I mean there's a lot of lessons there, a lot of things that follow up. And I suppose as well you're, you're fighting for a share of stomach or share of snack, right. If you got that percentage of category ownership, it's really getting them to choose guacamole. I love the way you say guacamole. So, say that again for me by the way.
Ivonne Kinser 23:13
Guacamole.
Michael LeBlanc 23:15
Versus another you know, salsa or another option, right? So, there's a bit of that. But let's go back a step. So, just so I in the audience understand clearly. Your organization because I meet people who represent banana growers and they represent all growers but you're a brand, separate. So, you're, would you describe yourself as a marketing group and an advocacy group.
Ivonne Kinser 23:29
So, we represent growers, actually importers and distributors, these two organizations, the organization of growers of avoca-, Mexican avocados in Michoacan, Mexico. And the organization of importers, packers and distributors of avocados in the US. They came together for the first time in history to create, to form the Checkoff Program of the US Department of Agriculture. So, we do represent them, but we don't directly manage the sales or sales data.
Michael LeBlanc 24:06
Right. So, each individual organization, the wholesaler, importer, does their own business with the retailers. But you are the umbrella so to speak, above all that.
Ivonne Kinser 24:14
Exactly. And, and our Board of Directors is comprised of half of the growers and half of the packers.
Michael LeBlanc 24:22
Oh, that's interesting. Okay. So, let's talk about some lessons learned, like, you know, when you think and reflect on this tremendous success. I guess part of that is getting people to think, you know, of walking down that consideration, consider this, remember when you go to grab a snack, but the structure that you put in place. What lessons do you think are there for other fruits and other products in general that, you know, you would say share on, on the podcast with them and say, listen, here's the three things if you're going to be successful as us that you need to have in place.
Ivonne Kinser 24:52
Yeah, you know, I'm going to start with a story and it's going to illustrate my point. But when I went for that interview with Avocados from Mexico, and, and, and you knew me from the fashion industry, right, that's what I was coming from. But then I went to this interview with Avocados from Mexico, and I asked the CEO, why are you interested in me Because I have no experience whatsoever in this category, I come from completely a different industry, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 25:21
Did you like avocados, though, are you an avocado fan?
Ivonne Kinser 25:23
That's one thing that I, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 25:24
Okay, so you had that going for you, okay, (crossover talk),
Steve Dennis 25:26
And the way you say guacamole, (crossover talk), a huge advantage, right away, (Ivonne) Right away.
Michael LeBlanc 25:31
It's like when I sit in front of a banking, you know, if I ever sat in front of bankers for a job, it looks like I have a bank account or I shop or I eat, okay.
Ivonne Kinser 25:34
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 25:35
Gets you to the starting gate.
Ivonne Kinser 25:38
Exactly. That, that was something that was something to start. And he said, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm looking for someone with a very good understanding of the digital ecosystem. And that, but no experience in the category. So, they can help me build what nobody else is doing. And that became the foundation of what we do at Avocados from Mexico. It's just marketing for produce as a CPG, which was completely disrupting all the preconceived notions in the industry.
Ivonne Kinser 25:54
So, to your point, what are the learnings? I haven't reflected on these a lot through the past years. Because remembering the past, actually, when we came out of college, it was, you were supposed to build your career in one vertical in one category. So, people that have spent a lot of years in beauty or a lot of years in whatever industry (inaudible), but as things have evolved, and everything moves so fast, I think that learning agility is a lot more important today that, what is that experience, because that learning agility, which by the way is a thing? I mean, I have been researching about it, and it's a very strong skill comprised by multiple other skills, is what allows you to kind of cross pollinate ideas from one industry to the other one.
Ivonne Kinser 26:44
And when we or our CEO created the Avocados from Mexico marketing, you see our experiences are from multiple diverse industries from CPG to mine, like fashion, communications or and that really helped bring some ingenuity and creativity to, that allows the companies to re-invent or invent themselves in a way that they become pioneers. And that just put you in a very privileged position to break through and, and, and break the barriers and the paradigms and everything that it was supposed to be. So, I think that was one of our, the most important learnings that I have had.
Michael LeBlanc 27:56
Interesting. As we reflect back a couple of years and to where we are today, this quasi-post-COVID world. I mean the, the supply chains, there must have been a tremendous amount of energy around moving product and, and challenges and talking about your experience during the COVID era and how you overcame whatever challenges. I guess in one day, it was good that people were home snacking, but (crossover talk) but on the other side, (crossover talk). I learned to make, I made, I mastered, but on the other hand foodservice just dissipated. I mean, that had to be a huge demand drop. And so talk a little bit about how you got through that.
Ivonne Kinser 28:31
Absolutely. So, everything that you say that, that we, we went through all that however on the retail side, so people were eating more at home. So, in that regard it benefited us, but as a marketing company, we had a huge disruption. We were ready, I remember to launch our Cinco de Mayo campaign when things started closing down. And,
Michael LeBlanc 28:39
Sure, sure.
Ivonne Kinser 28:41
We started listening, what's going on here, and how serious it was. And it happens to be that (inaudible) Cinco de Mayo TV spot. The context was a hospital and (inaudible) people in the hospital celebrating Cinco de Mayo,
Michael LeBlanc 29:10
Just coincidentally,
Ivonne Kinser 29:11
Coincidentally,
Michael LeBlanc 29:12
Yeah, yeah, food,
Ivonne Kinser 29:15
Because we, we, wish, we have shot that commercial like a month before we didn't know but, and then obviously, that was not, longer appropriate. So, we have to imagine that a brand like us with limited budget will, just like throw away a TV production, at least for a couple of years anyway. I mean, you can kind of warehouse it, I suppose, right.
Ivonne Kinser 29:36
We'd never, I mean it was, it's gone. I, I, I think that we never used it again because things changed and it lost relevancy. But then there was 10 days before Cinco de Mayo, which is our second largest occasion of the year after the Super Bowl. What do we do? And the good thing and the big advantage that we have is the agility because we have a small team that moves extremely fast. We built from ideation to launch a digital campaign for Cinco de Mayo in 10 days. It became the most successful digital campaign ever because we tapped into the current situation of people at home, so the campaign was homemade whack, whack-a-mole. And we invited people to choose to go with their families and create their own whacks, and we (inaudible) and, and interactions with consumers. So, people think so quickly that only a small organization. Can do, really make us deliver a more successful campaign ever. So, you know, we turned a really bad situation into a good marketing opportunity.
Steve Dennis 30:49
I think it's an interesting point, just even going back to what you said a few minutes ago. It strikes me and we talked about this on the podcast, and I talk about this with, with clients. And when I speak sometimes, is that you know what, what got you here, what made you successful in the past, whether that's an organization or your, you know, yourself personally, may not serve you well in the future, because you can't see problems in a different, different way and in a different environment. So, sometimes I think, when you're forced to do something quickly, you're like, well, we can't do it the way we've always done it. So, we're just going to have to come up with a different way of doing it and you see things that you may not see, or you might have talked yourself out of, if you had more time to plan. So it's, I think it's just an interesting, interesting point. So, we're here at Groceryshop recording this, have you seen I know you haven't been here. And it's early in the conference. Have you seen anything interesting? Or is there something in particular, you're really hoping to get out of, out of your time here in Las Vegas?
Ivonne Kinser 31:45
Yeah. So, you know, I love coming to these types of shows and, and CES. And that, those, large shows, Groceryshop talk shows. What I do, even though I just came here yesterday, is I listen to the chatter, I read signs, I read like headlines, I talk to people and try to kind of gather the patterns of what is going on. And what I'm seeing in the short time that I have been here is a lot of omni-channel conversations, personalization. I think that omni-channel (inaudible), became, we have repeated that word so much that we kind of lost perspective.
Steve Dennis 32:25
We were talking about that last night at dinner like, wow, it's now 15 years in now or whatever, omni-channel, omni-channel, yeah.
Ivonne Kinser 32:30
But yet, but it's kind of a different meaning right now, when I look at what is going on, it's more like the way I look at it. It's more channel-agnostic.
Steve Dennis 32:41
Right.
Ivonne Kinser 32:42
So, we have to stop thinking about channels and planning about channels and, and budget for channels. And we need to follow the consumer wherever they are, and the consumer chooses to go across channels seamlessly. So, that is becoming the line that separates one channel to the other one blurry. And that is what I perceive as an omni-channel right now. Then you see a lot of personalization, you see a lot of artificial intelligence machine learning algorithms.
Ivonne Kinser 33:10
But when you look at everything, in together, you see that the trends kind of intertwine to support each other. For example, personalization, you can do personalization today, because you have the technology capabilities of machine learning and artificial intelligence that helps you to identify consumer preferences, preferred channels. So, it's just planning to put in front of the consumer, that shoppable opportunity, whatever the consumer is channel-agnostic. I think that's a lot of what I'm seeing is that combination of trends, but I'll go to personalization, convenience, and just put it, putting your product in the consumer fingertips, whatever it, they are.Just maybe one quick follow up on that, for a brand or group like yours. How do you personalize things, you don't have a lot of individualized customer data, right? So, we ha-, okay, don't, don't underestimate our sophistication. We actually started building our first-party data in 2016. It has been you know it's, it, first-party data is expensive and difficult. But what we are doing is partnering with partners with LiveRamp, for example, to identify individual consumers and whatever they want and, and just target them in a one-on-one basis. We partner with eCommerce facilitators like Meek Mag, for example that they also have a partnership with LiveRamp and then they have their consumers, will identify, and the shoppers based on their preferences, the demographics, etc. So, is that personalization to your point? It is true, I was just giving you a hard time, but we don't, we don't have the hard data or the personally identifiable information.
Steve Dennis 35:22
Right.
Ivonne Kinser 35:23
But we can personalize by preferences, (crossover talk),
Steve Dennis 35:26
That's why it makes it much more relevant.
Ivonne Kinser 35:29
Exactly.
Steve Dennis 35:30
In standing out, interesting.
Michael LeBlanc 35:34
Interesting, interesting. It's the last question for you. What's next? I mean, the food service grocery business is still, it's been disrupted with more people eating at home. People, I think have learned, you know, you mentioned your, how to make great guacamole at home. I mean, then people are like, oh, great, I can make this at home. Maybe I don't have to go out. How are you thinking about that? Where do influencers, live streaming and there's so many levers to pull? What's next for the organization? What are you working on?
Ivonne Kinser 35:59
So, a lot of that, that you mentioned, or all of the above? I think that one thing that is very clear ahead of us is something that I have been pushing through the organization and is crystallizing, which is a brand's performance approach. In the past, brands, typically, companies have had a brand budget and a performance budget, and brand advertising, performance advertising. So, for over a year, we have been building these brands' performance approach, how we approach it, how we measure it. And finally, we just launched that. What it means is that we want each dollar that we put out there for marketing, drive, brand and performance.
Ivonne Kinser 36:23
So, what we're doing right now is pre-testing every campaign for brand metrics, and performance metrics, and then tweaking accordingly to what we learn. But I think that's the future of the, the future of everything is just the walls are falling apart. And everything is more flat and more seamless. And that's how the consumers navigate, they are being entertained, and then they shop, they are shopping, and then they are entertained. And you see also that in the retail platforms, how they are integrating storytelling type of format, because it's all about creating that full experience of inspiration, all the way to purchase in one seamless journey,
Michael LeBlanc 37:34
Right. And then just trying to understand if your marketing, mix modeling, and all those kinds of sophisticated tools to tie those things together.
Ivonne Kinser 37:40
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 37:41
Well, listen, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thanks for joining us here in the podcast studio at Groceryshop. It was a real treat to listen to. I'm a big fan of your product, you know in general and, and love me a good guacamole. So, you know I had a personal interest in, in learning more about it. And, and thanks for sharing here on the Remarkable Retail podcast. It's a real treat to meet you.
Ivonne Kinser 37:59
Thank you for the invite. I thank you for the opportunity to say guacamole at least 10 times.
Michael LeBlanc 38:05
Okay, what's the secret to a good guacamole?
Ivonne Kinser 38:08
Limes.
Steve Dennis 38:09
There's so much valuable information you get from this podcast, (crossover talk), unbelievable.
Ivonne Kinser 38:14
That's probably the best piece of information I gave you today.
Michael LeBlanc 38:18
Fantastic, great, great limes from Mexico. I love my limes from Mexico. Well, thanks again for joining us. It was a real pleasure. If you like what you heard, please follow us on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform so you can catch up with all our great interviews, like our discussion with Seth Godin on what retailers can actually do to fight climate change. New episodes of Season 5, presented by MarketDial will show up each and every week. And be sure to tell your friends and colleagues in the retail industry all about us. Thank you.
Steve Dennis 38:44
And I'm Steve Dennis, author of the bestselling book, ‘Remarkable Retail: How to Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption’. You can learn more about me, my consulting and keynote speaking at stevenpdennis.com.
Michael LeBlanc 38:58
And I'm Michael LeBlanc, Consumer Retail Growth Consultant, keynote speaker and producer and host of a series of retail trade podcasts including this one. Plus, the host of the popular YouTube cooking show Last Request Barbecue. You can learn even more about me on LinkedIn or at meleblanc.co.
Michael LeBlanc 39:04
Safe travels everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
talk, brand, avocados, people, Mexico, retail, guacamole, continue, Macy’s, Steve, consumer, retailers, campaign, personalization, REI, created, story, years