We kick-off Season 2 with a predictions focused episode, wherein we try to make educated guesses about what's likely to unfold in 2021 and our uncertain and volatile retail economy.
We kick-off Season 2 with a predictions focused episode, wherein we try to make educated guesses about what's likely to unfold in 2021 and our uncertain and volatile retail economy. Among the predictions we discuss are:
You can read Steve's latest 2021 prediction article in Forbes here.
We also debut a new segment titled "Remarkable or Forgettable?" where we give our hot takes on a selection of retail headlines, and deem them wow-worthy, best ignored or somewhere in between. This week's candidates include Nordstrom's expansion of its "Local" concept, the news that HBC might spin-out Saks.com, LVMH's Tiffany make-over and Godiva's decision to shutter all their physical stores.
Steve Dennis is an advisor, keynote speaker and author on strategic growth and business innovation. You can learn more about Steve on his website. The expanded and revised edition of his bestselling book Remarkable Retail: How To Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption will be released April 13th and is now available for preorder at Amazon or just about anywhere else books are sold. Steve regularly shares his insights in his role as a Forbes senior contributor and on Twitter and LinkedIn. You can also check out his speaker "sizzle" reel here.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to Remarkable Retail podcast, season two, episode one. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Steve Dennis
And I'm Steve Dennis.
Michael LeBlanc
Great to be back on the mic with you, I felt my life was a little different, actually, without the day-to-day, week-to-week, chitting n’ chatting about retail strategy. I loved a great feedback on the first season. And I really think it's going to stand, you know, not just for what we did in 2020, but and beyond.
But let's talk about we thought, as I said, this is a solo episode, and we both thought it'd be great idea to start with predictions. You know, predictions are daring and fun, and we'll hold ourselves accountable or not don't know, into what our predictions are you making, am I making but let's start, let's start with your predictions for 2021. I mean, there's, there's a lot we can go through, I wanted to start with one of the things I think may be the longest lasting implication of the COVID era, who knows, but this work from home movement. What do you what do you think about that? I mean, it's at a place today, but I have the sense that it's going to continue.
Steve Dennis
Yeah, I've been, I've been discussing this with a lot of folks. And, on the one hand, and I guess I think probably the same thing about people going back to stores, is that we are social creatures. There's a hunger for connection. The social aspect of work that I think lots of people miss. And so, I certainly think when it feels safer, plenty of people will be wanting to get back into the office. But I've heard plenty of companies as well, that are just like, you know, we're either going to shrink our office space, because we know some people are going to be basically permanently working from home as an option, or will say, okay, you know, you can, you can work two or three days a week from, from the office. And so, you know, there's this, I think so many, once we could be on the safety concerns right there, there's just this, this saving of time and money for the worker, not commuting, right, and for the company to be able to downsize their space.
Michael LeBlanc
And you know, the other thing companies have mentioned is that I was talking to a small regional furniture gu, a furniture, a CEO, and his challenge has always been attracting talent. Because he's in kind of mid-size, small town, part of Ontario, Canada. And he says, now I'm hiring people from Toronto and Vancouver, because they're gonna work virtual. So, it's opened my mind.
Steve Dennis
Right.
Michael LeBlanc
And, and that's the confluence of two things. One is that you could always do that. I mean, you could hire somebody from, you know, from Paris, if you want it. But it always felt weird to the culture, right, when everybody's showing up at work except the CMO. You know what I mean, right?
Steve Dennis
Well, I think the thing is this, that's really likely to persist in both work from home, and I would say the same thing about aspects of business travel, is once you basically been forced to not go to the office, not travel, you start to realize the toll it takes on you timewise, emotionally, etc, and the expense of it. And so, I've talked a bunch of people about business travel too, where it's like, well, you know, we used to just always jump on the plane, whenever the client said they needed to see us. Now we realize you can get a lot of work done right, or we can get more work done without having to fly across the country and spend the day for a one-hour meeting in Seattle or something.
So, so, I think, you know, it's hard to know, certainly, how quickly, we get back to some semblance of normalcy. But I think now that so many of us have spent what will be almost 18 months probably that we've been living in a different way to go, hmm, maybe we should think about how we spend our time and money in different ways. So, I think that experience and getting habituated to working from home and less travel and so forth, that I think there'll be some, some permanent changes for sure.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, let's bring that into the retail context. You know, people I've been talking to have said, the best guess is two thirds of people on any given day will go back to the workplace. So, I'll give you an order of magnitude in Toronto, where I am, 350,000 people flood into the downtown core to go to work. Right now that's like 5 or 6%. But let's say post COVID, the best guess is about two thirds of them. So, if you're a realtor, you know, if you're a retailer, you're thinking okay, how do my stores make sense there? But then what do you think they're thinking around the cost of real estate? Where they should be located? The implications of eCommerce? But let's, let's talk about it from the retail context.
Steve Dennis
Well, one of the predictions I make, which is not completely on your point is this idea that cheap real estate will create new opportunities. And I think certainly with all the store closings we've seen, and maybe we'll talk about what's going to happen with store closings coming up, but, but, but certainly there's going to continue to be a lot of contraction. So, that's going to create a lot vacancies in general, right. But I certainly think for retailers, and restaurants as well, that are highly dependent on that urban core commute business person to drive their business, if that drops, you know, even, even 10 or 15%, right can take you from being,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure
Steve Dennis
Nice and profitable to not making your numbers work. So, certainly, if you drop 20, 30, 40%, that could be huge for certain areas. So, I definitely think they're, they're gonna be pockets of major metro areas where a lot of the businesses that currently operate, even if we see an overall recovery, are going to really struggle, and we'll see a shift perhaps to, you know, certain suburban areas, or just different pockets of cities,
Michael LeBlanc
Or the other element of the equation, the landlord say, 'Listen, I can't get $1 for that square foot anymore, but I'm happy to get 60 cents instead of $1'. And maybe the math starts to work again. Like, you know, I think there's, there's, there's this that push and pull effect of any, you know, sure, I think, I think 'B' and 'C' malls could have a little bit of an extra, a second life, so to speak, because they were kind of on their way out. But, you know, with more people working and being closer to home, maybe, you know, maybe, maybe those malls have a second life, yeah.
Steve Dennis
Well, I would say overall, I'm pretty pessimistic on, on 'B' and 'C' malls, but I certainly think it's, you can't broad brush, you know, hundreds and hundreds of locations, right. I mean, there's some that that certainly have the ability to get massively repurposed, and perhaps attract tenants, or keep tenants, if they're, they're willing to really cut their leases. I think the thing that will be more interesting, perhaps, is how either, or I guess both really, some of these digitally native vertical brands, which were, as you know, opening quite a few stores, pre-pandemic, many of them have, have put those plans on hold. But I think fundamentally, the reason that many of these brands want to open retail locations still exist. If suddenly, rents are even cheaper, any of those brands that were maybe on the fence, or maybe they were like, oh, well, we'll open 3 stores, you know, maybe they open 5 stores, 10 stores. And then, I think also, for more traditional retailers, there's an opportunity to pick up different space, right? And so, maybe relocations start to make sense because they want to downsize, or they want to format their store in such a way for curbside pickup or a drive thru pickup or, you know. So, so I think there'll be,
Michael LeBlanc
A loading dock, I mean, you know, better loading dock, I mean, there's a lot of reasons to move. I mean, okay, so now you're talking a lot about physical stores, which might surprise some listeners, because we, you know, we're assumed, that's not a real word. We're
Steve Dennis
Not speaking Canadian Michael.
Michael LeBlanc
Sorry, I'm making, making stuff up. You know, we hear all the time about eCommerce and, and you know, the massive lifts in eCommerce, but you're talking about store. So, what do you, how are you feeling about retail stores, physical stores?
Steve Dennis
Well, I get criticized for being perhaps a little bit of a cheerleader for physical stores. Because, I've been saying that the retail apocalypse is largely a false narrative for several years. And I guess my prediction for this year is really just an update, which is physical retail, still not dead. That doesn't mean that we aren't going to see a huge number of stores closed this year. I know there are estimates, I think Coresight just came out with something that said they think 10,000 stores are going to close in the US and certainly we're seeing store closings in Canada and UK.
Michael LeBlanc
Great guest, Deborah Weinswig, yeah, yeah.
Steve Dennis
Yeah, so, it's not as if stores aren't closing. It's not as if malls aren't in trouble. But, if you look at the numbers, first of all, there are lots of retailers that continue to open a lot of stores. And it happens to be the retailers that have a winning business model are investing in stores, right? So, whether you're talking about Tractor Supply, you know, he had Rob Mills on here, or, or Target or Costco or IKEA, I mean, Restoration Hardware. There's lots of these brands that are opening stores. Walmart, my old employer, Neiman Marcus, they both announce major capital investment projects in their physical stores. And we just have to remember.
Michael LeBlanc
Neiman, it, what is it, 85 million? Because they're coming out of protection again, right,
Steve Dennis
Correct, yeah, yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
But they're rolling out the carpet for like some big, some big dineros.
Clearly, they're optimistic about something.
Steve Dennis
Yeah. Well, I think what people sometimes lose, lose sight of is that, yeah, we've, we've seen, you know, what I call the collapse of the middle. Because they're just we're, you know, number one, we had overbuilding that went on in a lot of markets, not just the US for a lot of years. And, we had these dynamics, aside from even the growth of eCommerce, that were just pushing people either, more towards value. You know, whether that's Walmart, or Costco, or Aldi, or Trader Joe's, or whatever,
Michael LeBlanc
T.J. Maxx,
Steve Dennis
Yeah, T.J. Maxx, all those guys, or more upscale. And then you know, this middle, which is where most of the department stores sat, where a lot of apparel retailer sat, I mean, that was the place where it's been very apocalyptic. But, when you step back and look at physical retail, overall, it's still 80% of overall volume. Physical retail, according to some estimates, actually was up last year, despite the pandemic. Now, eCommerce was up way more. So
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah. Let's talk about that the great acceleration. So, you know, a friend, a friend and guest, Carl Boutet, he's actually got a book coming out, which I'm very excited to read, such a smart guy, about this great acceleration. And so, what are your thoughts on, on the great eCommerce acceleration?
Steve Dennis
Well, I'd say think two things about it. I mean, the one, the one thing, which I think was, was really obvious, was when people started to say that we had 10 years of eCommerce growth in eight weeks or whatever. You know, I was like, well, just wait, because I'm not going to persist. Now, because so much of that was, was driven by the physical retail store closings, right. Where people literally could not shop or didn't want to shop. As soon as stores started to open again, that, that growth rate moderated quite a bit. So, if you actually look at the numbers in eCommerce overall, at least in the US, I haven't looked in other markets. The reality is that eCommerce grew about three years, in one year, which is still massive, right. But it's also still heavily influenced by people's reluctance to go to stores for,
Michael LeBlanc
I think the one category, that may be the exception, I wanted your thoughts on this, is grocery. I was looking at some numbers.
Steve Dennis
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc
And, you know, grocery was really just bubbling along at a very low volume. I think, you know, South Korea led the world at about 20% penetration. But the US, you know, Europe, England was about 8, to Europe, or sorry, America was in around 3 to 4. And it really wasn't changing that much. I mean, you know, point here point there. That feels maybe the exception to the rule, that it really moved forward more years than, than the rest. What do you think?
Steve Dennis
I tend to agree, I think if you if you haven't done this, maybe I should, I think if you broke up the numbers about the 3 year of accel, or acceleration, it's probably like 5 years for grocery and 2,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, okay,
Steve Dennis
For just about any, everything else. The thing I think that still, well, two things about grocery. One is I still think it remains to be seen how it all sorts out because of the cost of doing grocery home delivery. I think, because of desperation, right, retailers pivoted to that, consumers liked it. And, for the most part, they either were willing to bear the extra cost, or retailers weren't fully charging for it. So, I think it'll be interesting to see over time, as retailers start to go like, you know, how do we not lose so much money on this? Do they kind of merchandise away from it, so to speak? Do they raise their prices? Do they set higher order value? And I think that could, I still think we're going to have accelerated growth for grocery for sure. But I think that could tamp down the, the growth rates a little bit.
The thing that's interesting about grocery and it's a, it's a bigger point. And I don't want to get overly like into the weeds on the semantics of this. But and I talked about this in the new version of my book about what, what we really mean when we talk about eCommerce. And that's probably a whole episode by itself. But, when I try to make in the book is, if you, and I go into much more detail, but the highlight is, if you think about what we call eCommerce 10 years ago,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Steve Dennis
For the most part, it was about a mail order catalog, right? You went online, you picked out your stuff. The retailer had a big distribution facility, put in a box and shipped it to your home or office. That was eCommerce. When we look at it today, that's still a big part of eCommerce. But, a big part of eCommerce actually involves either totally different sort of delivery system, home delivery, or it involves a physical store.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Steve Dennis
Right, it's fulfilled from a store, it's curbside pickup, etc. So, when we say well, groceries accelerated so much, really, to a certain degree, there's the part that is eCommerce in the traditional, more traditional senses, is we ship it to your house.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Steve Dennis
But the other thing is just like an ordering methodology, right?
Michael LeBlanc
Well, it's a great point because I, I'm more sanguine, I think about the this, this percentage of sales done online with the caveat that I think a lot of it is going to convert to click and collect. Here in Canada, and you know, Loblaws is the largest, one of the 5 largest in, they are the Walmart, I in the US, Walmart is that dominant a 25%, share. Loblaw here and they and they do, they do Instacart. But they do a ton, a ton of ton of business at click and collect.
And, you know, there's two philosophies I've heard from retailers, one set of retailers say it's an, it's an expensive way to do physical retail, because you got to, you know, you got to pick the shelves, and there's a lot of labor. And the others are, it's a very efficient way and inexpensive way to do eCommerce fulfillment.
Steve Dennis
Right.
Michael LeBlanc
And in some ways, it's philosophical because it's the same nickel. But I do think, you know, those that are adopting, and we should talk to Hubert Joly about this because Best Buy's done a wonderful job curbside, that those who have adopted it, got it to scale, do it really well are saying, well, this is great. Now I don't have to pay a courier, that people come to me. And then, the point I really think is interesting is then you can compete against the Amazons of the world or the pure plays, because you're leveraging the your best asset, which is your physicality, or localness your, your proximity?
Steve Dennis
Yeah, and I think and maybe, maybe I should talk about one of my other predictions, because I think it hits on this is this idea of the hybridization of retail. And, well, I think we're seeing the hybridization of everything right, we've got,
Michael LeBlanc
What do you mean by that? Unpack that a little bit for me.
Steve Dennis
Well, I think it's, you know, used to be that things were written more black-and-white in terms of how we shopped or how we worked, or how we went to conferences, or how we did workouts or whatever. Now, we've got this blend often between a physical component, and a virtual component. And they might be at play at the same time. So, from a shopping standpoint, the hybridization is really more of what you could call omni channel. But I think what's, what's starting to be different.
I mean, we always knew if you're paying attention, or always, but for many, many years, we knew that many customers were researching online, shopping in-store, showrooming in stores, buying online. And you know, across the year, they might do a third of their sales on eCommerce and two thirds of their sales in store or what have you, right. There was always this sort of blended, blurred shopping behavior. So, that has absolutely been accelerated.
What I think is interesting to what you were getting at, is the operating models of, of retailers are becoming more hybrid in nature, where there is this investment in really upping the investment in integration. But also, you know, not just the buy online, pick-up in-store integration, but the curbside pickup the full-fill from store.
So, I think the other part of the hybrid equation for retail is how the physical stores are becoming more hybrids, right. Your typical physical store, you know, forever was really a place to go buy stuff, right?
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Steve Dennis
You stocked it, and as you well know from your experience, the push for decades was well, let's, let's maximize our floor space, and shrink the backroom, because it's all about present, presenting merchandise and helping customers get in and out efficiently and so forth. Well, now, if you were picking and packing items from a store, and you're doing curbside pickup or express drive thru or whatever, now the nature of the store is both selling stuff, but also fulfilling stuff, as well as maybe showcasing things that you don't even carry inventory for. So, I think we're going to be seeing more of these hybrid store formats.
But I think we'll also see, and we're starting to see more of what I would call almost like a hybrid format deployment, right? Where like, for example, with Nordstrom, with their flagship stores and their local stores or with Whole Foods where they're converting some of their stores to basically fulfillment only stores. So, I think retailers will be thinking about how do our, how does each location perhaps need to morph to respond to the way the world is today, and they will become more hybrid in nature. But I also think retailers will, many will redeploy their real estate over time to deal with the hybrid nature of how people are shopping.
Michael LeBlanc
All right, let's take a quick break from our 2021 predictions episode, and hear from our great sponsor, RIWI, and talk about their unique customer research insight approach.
This episode is sponsored by RIWI. Steve, imagine in your past life as a C level executive at Sears and Neiman's, if you could take a daily pulse of retail shoppers in every market in the world. Hearing directly about the behaviors, views and fears. What if, you could hear from more than just your own consumers and shoppers and from people who didn't participate in your focus groups or your research panels? RIWI collects real time data on consumers in every market in the world. You need to understand how people's behaviors are changing in today's challenging environment. Visit our riwi.com RIWI to book a demo.
Steve Dennis
As part of, part of some of my predictions is this, this growth in personal shopping, but, but the personal
Michael LeBlanc
The role of the associate, right, right, right.
Steve Dennis
Well, I think but, what's happened, what you know, it's funny, not to get too into a history lesson, but way back when, when I, when I was in Neiman Marcus we were, we had pretty good personal shopping
Piece of our business, but relatively few people used it. And, in some cases we were frustrated because it wasn't like you had, you know, you had to pay for it, you know. But I think it was a little bit self-selecting, right. The people who shopped a lot knew that this was a thing and the sales associates, because they were on commission, tended to focus on the higher spending customers.
Michael LeBlanc
Sure, Right.
Steve Dennis
But I think partially because business is harder to come by, there's more of a scramble to serve more people. But I also think that technology is really changing the way personal shopping can be done. Some of that is just making appointment-based shopping easier. And a lot of that's been driven certainly by COVID. But I think we'll see appointment-based shopping, a lot of that will persist just because it's a better mousetrap. But I also think live streaming, virtual, personal shopping.
So, it's just again, I think many customers will want to get back to stores and enjoy the fun of shopping when they feel safe. But I also think now that some customers have seen 'Well, you know, I actually don't have to drive all the way over there'. Or they,
Michael LeBlanc
But they still want, they still want that in, your I mean, I love associates, you know, interact, and you would have experiences very much so at Neiman, you'd have very passionate people. I mean, some are on commission, but make some very good, very focused, and, and they add a lot of value, like a tremendous amount of value,
Steve Dennis
Oh Sure.
Michael LeBlanc
So that, you know, over the phone, I think that's happened, you know, it's been happening in China for a while. And it was another thing that really wasn't breaking through here. I mean, other than, you know, your HSN or your QVC, which is kind of the same format, but different. Interesting, right? I mean, this whole, this live streaming thing, I don't know if it's gonna sustain, what do you think?
Steve Dennis
Well, the question I keep asking about when I get, I get questions, just generally about which shopping behaviors do I think will persist once we get back or beyond COVID? Or what have you. The question I keep coming back to is, did, is the customer really making a compromise to choose this new way of doing things? Or is it really discovery? Like, 'Oh, this is actually a better way'. And I think it's hard to know, particularly as it relates to in person fashion shopping, let's say, because, on the one hand, I do think some customers will go, 'Wow, you know, just there's just times when I don't want to have to get my car and go to the store. And I've already got this relationship with the sales associate. And I kinda know I like this brand. And I can just talk to them on a, on a Zoom call, whatever, and they can show me stuff or send me videos or photos or whatever. I do, I don't need to try it on, necessarily. And you know, they can put outfits together for me and show me. And that actually works better for me'. But I also think clearly there have been going to be times where not only do people want to try stuff on, see it in person to be able to, oh why am I spending so much for this jacket or whatever, right? And it's social, and you're going to do it as part of a day out or whatever, where it's,
Michael LeBlanc
Just help me choose between two things that I love, and I can only afford one. if
Steve Dennis
Right or you've got friends with you. Or there's, you know, there's all sorts of social ish aspect, I don't know what to call that, because it's not a no party necessarily. But, I mean, it's one of the reasons why one of my other predictions, and I don't know that I've got this well-articulated, but I think there's a lot of fashion, higher end fashion and luxury, that doesn't come back until the fun comes back. And what I mean by that is, you know, the reality is we see, we're seeing lots of people go to stores. I mean, traffic is certainly down. But, there are plenty of stores where
Michael LeBlanc
Basket sizes are up, I mean,
Steve Dennis
Yeah, they're very busy. So, I think it's, it's hard to say, people just won't go to physical stores. Now, they're certainly being more selective about it. But I think when you think about certain kinds of stores, particularly higher end fashion stores, some of that business is down, just because there aren't places to wear the stuff you buy, right. Like you're not going to parties, you're not traveling, etc. So, so there's, the wearing occasions are down. So, so when that starts to come back, which is part of what I mean by the fun has to come back. Like we have to start going back to the theater and going out to restaurants and traveling and all that kind of stuff.
Michael LeBlanc
Office parties and,
Steve Dennis
But it also has to be fun to stay in the store. And you know, it's just not that fun when everybody's wearing a mask and you're being sprayed with disinfecting and you have to stand six feet away and you know, and you're just like, 'Oh, is this person gonna get me sick?' So, I mean, I think, I think people are just not going to be, as much as they may feel like they need more stuff or whatever. I don't think you're going to really race back. You know, there's the need part of it, that will drive the return to shop in some areas. But there's also the want part of it.
Michael LeBlanc
And there's the experience part of it, yeah, the want. The demand has got to be there, right? I mean, yeah, yeah. Right.
Steve Dennis
I guess I only say that because I don't, I think we're maybe kidding ourselves a little bit. I mean, obviously, there's lots of questions about how quickly people will get vaccinated and whether these variants will you know, there's all that stuff. I'm not going to wade into amateur epidemiologist. But, but I think,
Michael LeBlanc
You'd be one of the ones by the way.
Steve Dennis
Yeah, but even if everybody in the world got vaccinated in six months’ time, I don't think that just means, you know, everybody is racing out, back to normal. Because it's one thing to feel like the odds of getting sick are very low. It's another thing to really you know, feel like we're, we're sort of carefree, right? And can do anything, so, so well we'll see.
Michael LeBlanc
Alright, well, yeah. packed full of predictions that it'd be we'll have to circle back and, and check on these as, as things evolve. So now, let's get to our,
Steve Dennis
Can I say one other thing about that Michael?
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, go ahead.
Steve Dennis
I was, I was going to say at the outset, that out of sheer forgetfulness, last year, I did not do any predictions for Forbes. I had done it for a couple years straight.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Steve Dennis
And last year, I just didn't do it. For whatever reason, and I'm really grateful, right, because every single one of my predictions would have been wrong, two months later. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Very strategic of you.
Steve Dennis
Yeah. I mean, I had, I guess I had this like premonition. So, I way, I weighed carefully back into the world of predictions for 2021.
Michael LeBlanc
All right. And so, so we will see an article in Forbes around flushing out some of that. Is that what you're saying?
Steve Dennis
Maybe,
Michael LeBlanc
Oh, Maybe? Maybe, alright. Well, listen, one of the things that is coming out this year, there's no maybes about it's a second edition of your book. Now, I think it's advanced copies are able to purchase right, whether it's in the US or, or Canada, advanced copies available now, yeah?
Steve Dennis
Well, you can pre-order so,
Michael LeBlanc
Pre-order
Steve Dennis
Yeah, so the way it works in most places, particularly Amazon as the, as the big dog, but but others is
Michael LeBlanc
Chapters, Indigo here in, Indigo here in Canada
Steve Dennis
You can go online and preorder it and, either the eBook version, or the hardcover, and eventually an audio book. And, the day comes out, which is April 13, in most places a bit later in some international markets, they will ship it to you.
Michael LeBlanc
Wonderful.
Steve Dennis
So, and I'm selfishly interested in getting the preorders up because you know, then I move up in the rankings and all that good stuff, you know, we gotta outsmart the algorithms.
Michael LeBlanc
All right, all you listeners out there, all our faithful listeners get your preorders in now. Whether it's Amazon, or Indigo in Canada, they're there, they're there to be ordered to. Get that, get that going and get you, get yourself in the queue before that book sells out. Here we go.
Steve Dennis
That's optimistic.
Michael LeBlanc
Okay, but whatever. Alright, let's get let's get to this fun fresh segment we came up with this 'Remarkable or, or Forgettable?' Let's play the sting. We've got a sting we've come up with.
Alright, Steve, so this is how it's gonna work, and for you, the listeners out there, what we're going to do is we're going to look at some of the weeks of the recent retail news in the headlines, to kind of put them through that lens of the Remarkable Retail and off the top gets your response, is it remarkable? Or is it forgettable? All right, you ready?
Steve Dennis
I'm ready.
Michael LeBlanc
All right, so my first one, Retail Dive reports Nordstrom to open two more LA area local stores. What do you think of that?
Steve Dennis
Oh, I'm gonna put that on the remarkable side. I've liked the, I've liked the Amazon, or the Nordstrom Local concept when they were first piloting it a few years ago. What I like about it is, and if if listeners aren't familiar, it's a couple 1000 square foot store that is largely built around service and the ability to order online pick up in-store or do returns. And for me, not only is it very much of the harmonized omni channel moment really integrating stores and digital, but what I think is great for Nordstrom, in particular, is this allows them to get a lot closer to their customers. So, I don't know how many full-line stores they have in LA, but adding these additional locations that are closer to where their customers live or work, and the ability to get in and out of there very quickly without having to make a big trip to the mall, I think is a real customer convenience and allows them to grow share of wallet and market share. So, yeah, I like it.
Michael LeBlanc
All right. Next up Forbes reporting that Godiva Chocolates closing their stores in Canada and the US, what's going on there? Remarkable or forgettable? Is it remarkable that someone's closing stores?
Steve Dennis
Well, I'm not sure where to come down on this one. I think they may regret this because it's certainly noteworthy for that type of store to close all of their stores.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Steve Dennis
I would think of physical presence, maybe not as many as they had, but a physical presence for that type of brand is incredibly important. So,
Michael LeBlanc
It feels like, I like I've been into their 5th Avenue store in New York many times. And it's, it's very, you know, you, you're in chocolate world, right? And you're thinking of the brand, you may not, you know, go back over and over there, but you, it does put the brand forward in your mind, right, for consideration, right?
Steve Dennis
Well, that's one of the big roles for certain physical stores is to be
Michael LeBlanc
Sure,
Steve Dennis
A billboard, really for your brand. And, I would think in particular, with something like a diet chocolate, it's a way to upsell the customer, essentially, when they get to see it in person in a way that's really hard to do online. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Steve Dennis
It's been rising to me. So, I don't know that we'll forget it. As much as we might wonder, well, what exactly were they doing there? And, and won't be remarkable in a bad way?
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah. All right. Number 3, third one. Wall Street Journal reporting Li, LVMH, replaces the leadership of Tiffany. So, a bit of tussle back and forth about the value of Tiffany and the acquisition, but it now seems, I think that deals closed, and they're safely ensconced in the, in the luxury world that is, that is that brand. And now they've started taking ownership. They've, they've changed the leadership, and I'm sure changes to come. So, what do you think about Tiffany, in the new world under LMVH?
Steve Dennis
Well, Tiffany is a brand that I think it's got like this great core, but I feel like it's lost its way. So, I think this has the potential to be remarkable. LVMH certainly has the magic there in terms of elevating these brands. They're very good at it. I think the, the so, I guess this is a TBD. But I'm pretty encouraged by the move. And, I think there, there's a good foundation there for them to really take it to the next level. What about you, what do you think?
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I spent six months as the Head of Marketing in Canada for Pandora jewelry. So, you know, we would always look to Tiffany to see what they were doing. And of course, we knew it was a different level. But sometimes, you know, sometimes I think they might water down their brand. If I know LMVH they're just going to go one direction and that that's up, right. And make it more distinctive. Because we love their activations. You know, looking at Pandora across, across the mall, we'd love what Tiffany was doing in terms of activations, but sometimes the product, sometimes I think they, I don't know. They were, they're going after more customers, and it may have cost them from a product perception perspective is, is what I think LMVH is thinking. So, there's clearly something there, they paid what? 14, 15 billion dollars for it. So, you know, clearly there's a there, there, that's for sure.
Washington Post article and smart shopping carts on the rise. So, the you know, the smart shopping carts, and Kroger just rolled them out. They're here in Canada, Sobeys has some, where it's kind of like you, you know, you've just, it's not an app, it's actually the cart, right. So, it's, it's you, you scan your items on a machine, on a reader on the cart, and you go. Kind of like the 'Shop it like you stole it' kind of stores that Amazon Go is except there's a cart to it. What do you think of that overall, augmentation onto, onto retail? Let's talk, we'll talk about the Kroger execution later. But what do you think of that? Is it, is it remarkable? Does it fulfill a better customer experience?
Steve Dennis
I think it's another one of these that has the potential to do it. I believe on the first, in our first season we talked a little bit about tactical things that were really important and potentially remarkable. But, when you're talking about a complicated shopping experience in a battle for market share, like you have in grocery, does any one thing really convey much remarkability to the brand. That's why I think it's a little bit harder to understand, but, but I like it, I think it's pretty intriguing as a concept.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, you know, let's take you right to the Kroger execution and, and I have to say this was our friends at Omni Talk, Chris and Anne called this out. I watched the promotional video, and I'll put a link to it. And there's four words in the promotional video and this was, this was Chris calling this out, that just kill the execution and you know what, those four words were?
Steve Dennis
No.
Michael LeBlanc
Return this cart to the store. So, can you imagine get to the far end of the parking lot. You've had this wonderful experience and now you got to schlep back, all the way back to the store and return the cart. So, you might as well just checked out
Steve Dennis
Yeah, that doesn't seem so awesome.
Michael LeBlanc
I'll put that one in their kind of it could be a forgettable. Though, the technology is pretty slick, so I do like the technology. So, like you I'm a bit on the fence about that, but, we'll see.
Now there's one I think you've written an article about it. Hudson's Bay announcing that they're planning to spin off Saks from their, their physical from the virtual and, and, you know, I'm not sure where this fits on remarkable or forgettable or just may, or may not be a great idea, what do you think?
Steve Dennis
Well, perhaps we should call this part of the show, Remarkable Forgettable or WTF? Because this one was really mystifying to me. On the one hand, as probably many of our listeners know, there's been this real tear for IPOs of fashion brands and some pretty lofty valuations. It remains to be seen whether those valuations will, will stick. So, it seems like a kind of desperate ploy to try to get some value out of it. But the idea of splitting up your eComm from your physical stores is so against the trend. My little cheeky comment in my Forbes post was, 'If this actually happens, the saks.com folks, I think will be sitting there a year from now and going, 'Well, oh, how can we grow our stores more and lower returns and create more efficiency?' And some will go, ‘I know we should open some stores' And like
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Steve Dennis
So close.
Michael LeBlanc
All right. Well, that's our first 'Remarkable or Forgettable?' episode. That was, that was pile of fun. We'll do that each and every week, kind of put a capstone to the episode. And that was good. So, listen, let's, let's land the plane as you would, as you would often say to our guests, 'We're gonna land the plane' This great episode and, and why don't you read us out, take us through, take us through the final, final thoughts on the way out.
Steve Dennis
All right, well, if you like what you heard, you can subscribe on Apple, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform. Please rate and review and be sure and recommend to a friend or colleague in the retail industry or just about anybody else who's interested in what brands are doing. I'm Steve Dennis, you can learn more about me on stevenpdennis.com and be sure to look for me on LinkedIn and Twitter for my latest insights.
Michael LeBlanc
And I'm Michael LeBlanc, Producer and Host of The Voice of Retail podcast. You can learn more about meleblanc.co or on LinkedIn. Steve, have a wonderful safe week. Talk to you next week with our guest, Ron Thurston.
Steve Dennis
Look forward to it.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
stores, people, predictions, ecommerce, retail, brand, remarkable, physical, retailers, shopping, customers, malls, world, canada, store closings, grocery, nordstrom, business, home, bit