This episode we welcome our fellow "Rethink Retail Top Influencers" Nikki Baird, Ricardo Belmar, and Alicia Esposito. Julia Raymond Hare and Gabriella Bock also join us to explain what the Rethink Retail's list is all about.
This episode we welcome our fellow "Rethink Retail Top Influencers" Nikki Baird, Ricardo Belmar, and Alicia Esposito. Julia Raymond Hare and Gabriella Bock also join us to explain what the Rethink Retail's list is all about.
But first we take on the news of the week, including the continuing "profitless prosperity as exhibited by Warby Parker's expanding losses and the big drop in market capitalization among disruptive retail brands. We also unpack the National Retail Federation's annual forecast, including how to think about the impact of inflation, whether their e-commerce prediction is a bit optimistic and how impacts are likely to be bifurcated.
Then we welcome our panel of experts and delve into what they as see as remarkably important for the future, including innovation within brick-and-mortar locations, how to drive innovation through iteration and the growing embrace of convenience. We also explore what our influencers see as important technologies and get their quick take on retailers (legacy and up-and-coming) to keep an eye on this year.
Rethink Retail's Top Influencers List.
Steve's recent Forbes articles related to our news segment
After Earnings Whiff Maybe Warby Parker Can Learning Something From Old School DTC Brands
The Profitless Prosperity of Retail Disruptor Brands
Wayfair, Stitch Fix and Pure-play E-commerce's Scaling Problem.
Relevant Past Podcast Episodes
Why Does It Take a Crisis for Retailer's to Innovate?
The Profitless Prosperity of Disruptor Brands
Understanding Warby Parker and the Power of Customer-based Valuation
To record a question for us to answer on a future episode go to speakpipe.com/remarkableretail
Nikki Baird is the vice president of strategy at Aptos, a retail enterprise solution provider. She is charged with accelerating retailers’ ability to innovate. She has been a top global retail industry influencer for several years, with a background in retail and technology. She is a regular contributor to Forbes.com and has been quoted as a retail subject matter expert in The Economist, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Huffington Post, and National Public Radio, among many others. Nikki brings perspective from all sides of the retail technology equation: she has been an industry analyst for nearly fifteen years, co-founding Retail Systems Research, the premier boutique analyst firm focused on the retail industry. Prior to co-founding RSR, Nikki was an analyst at both Forrester Research and Retail Systems Alert Group, where she covered retail industry and technology topics. Prior to that, she was director of marketing for StorePerform, a store execution management software provider, and director of product marketing for Viewlocity, a supply chain software provider focusing on adaptive supply chain execution and exception management. Nikki came to Viewlocity from PwC Consulting, now IBM Global Services, where as a senior manager she led IT strategy consulting engagements for retail and CPG clients. Nikki has an M.B.A. from the University of Texas, Austin, focusing on operations and IT. She also holds a bachelor of arts in political science and Russian, with a minor in physics, from the University of Colorado, Boulder.
About Ricardo Belmar
Recently named a top 100 retail industry influencer by RETHINK Retail, Ricardo is a marketing strategist and digital transformation specialist. He founded Retail Razor, to advise retail tech organizations of all sizes with their go-to-market, brand strategy, and integrated marketing by leveraging his many years of tech industry experience, and media and industry analyst relationships. He also advises retailers on how to build & scale transformational customer experiences. Most recently, he joined Microsoft as Senior Partner Marketing Advisor for Retail & CPG where he strives to use his experience and network to strengthen Microsoft’s retail tech partner community.
A frequent contributor to blogs, podcasts, and publications in the retail, payments, and enterprise software industries, focusing on digital transformation and customer experience, Ricardo is a Top 10 social media influencer at the annual NRF Big Show. He is a featured member of RetailWire’s BrainTrust panel, a previous ICX Association director, a RETHINK Retail Advisory Council member, and a founding Advisory Council member of George Mason University's Center for Retail Transformation. He has been named Social Media Mayor by RIS News four times at retail conferences and is a contributor to Retail Customer Experience, Mobile Payments Today, and The Robin Report. Ricardo is a supporter of the RetailROI charity organization and can be found leading industry discussions on Clubhouse in the Retail Razor Club and on Twitter and LinkedIn.
Throughout the past two decades, Ricardo has worked for technology and managed services providers targeting the retail ecosystem in roles as head of their product, product marketing, or marketing organizations. Ricardo holds a BS in Electrical Engineering from the University of Virginia and is a Section4 Certified Strategist, Brand Strategist, Product, Platform, and Innovation Strategist.
About Alicia Esposito
Within my eight-year tenure at G3 Communications, I have evolved extensively. Starting as an Associate Editor for our B2B retail publication, Retail TouchPoints, I have worked my way up the ranks, quickly becoming an expert and thought leader in all components of retail and customer experience.
In my time as Associate Editor and Senior Editor of Retail TouchPoints, I interviewed some of the industry's top C-level executives from brands like Reebok and have covered a myriad of different "beats," including social marketing and commerce, mobile, omnichannel strategy and even supply chain management. I covered several key industry events nationwide, including NRF's BIG Show, Shop.org and eTail, and became a VIP press attendee at user events for vendors like Aptos, Demandware, JDA and Salesforce.
Beyond my editorial obligations, I helped build the proprietary research and custom content division of Retail TouchPoints, helping our clients ideate, develop and roll out some of their top-performing assets.
Now, as Content Strategist for G3 Communications, I help my internal team members create content, plan marketing campaigns and manage our family of events, including the B2B Marketing Exchange (Content2Conversion Conference) and the Retail Innovation Conference. I also help clients across all three of our brands (Retail TouchPoints, Demand Gen Report and Content4Demand) in several key areas of their content marketing journey, including:
- Persona creation
- Buyer-focused messaging
- Content audits and gap analysis
- Content ideation
- Content creation
- Repurposing and modularization
- Content and design alignment
- Long-term content strategy and nurture planning
About Julia Raymond Hare
I ask a lot of questions - it's one of the most exciting parts of my career! I’m a podcast host, marketing professional and data nerd all in one.
After spending 4 years in global marketing roles for the digital agency Valtech, I co-founded its media brand RETHINK Retail. By interviewing retail executives, academics and thought leaders, I deliver retail insights for leaders, from leaders.
My "formal" 3rd-person description:
Julia Raymond is passionate about marketing management, building connections with others, analytics and research, with a core focus on the retail industry. She earned her BSBA with honors from the University of Florida while she was a teenager. Her post-graduate degree is a Master of Science in Predictive Analytics from Northwestern University.
Julia is knowledgeable about international markets from her experience in global roles reporting directly to the Chief Marketing Officer at Valtech where she led creative and marketing teams; she is the Editor in Chief and co-founder of its media brand RETHINK Retail, curating the latest content around the evolution of retail in today’s connected world through mediums such as podcasts, research and periodicals.
About Gabriella Bock
RETHINK Retail's Managing Editor + Writer/Producer of the Retail Rundown, an award-winning retail podcast featuring news, insights and interviews with the world's most influential retail thinkers. What does the future of retail look like to you? Pitch me at gabriella@rethink.industries.
About Us
Steve Dennis is an advisor, keynote speaker and author on strategic growth and business innovation. You can learn more about Steve on his website. The expanded and revised edition of his bestselling book Remarkable Retail: How To Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption is now available at Amazon or just about anywhere else books are sold. Steve regularly shares his insights in his role as a Forbes senior contributor and on Twitter and LinkedIn. You can also check out his speaker "sizzle" reel here.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks , The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and now in its second season, Conversations with CommerceNext! You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Be sure and check out Michael's latest venture for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue, his YouTube BBQ cooking channel!
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to the Remarkable Retail podcast season 4, episode 10. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Steve Dennis 00:11
And I'm Steve Dennis.
Michael LeBlanc 00:12
Well, Steve a fun episode, actually part one, of a two part series where we're talking to fellow RETHINK Retail top global influencers about what's new and next in modern retail.
Steve Dennis 00:24
Yeah, I think this is, you know, this is an opportunity for us to bring in kind of a cross section of, of influencers and get their perspectives so yeah, I think, I think it is pretty, pretty fun and di-, and di-, diverse in many ways.
Michael LeBlanc 00:37
Yeah, it's, it's all those things and, and a bag of chips as my friends would say. And in this episode, we've got, our first episode as I said, we've got Alicia Esposito, VP of Content at G3 Communications, which is Retail TouchPoints. We've got Nikki Baird, Vice President of Retail Innovation at Aptos retail, and Ricardo Belmar Director, Partner Marketing and Senior Advisor for Retail & CPG at Microsoft and a podcaster himself.
Now, we had some fun because we wanted to say, you know, what is this RETHINK Retail anyway and how did it come to pass? So, before our panelists join us to discuss what's new and next, Julia Raymond Hare and Gabriella Bock are here with us to share a bit about the top retail influencer program. So, nice, big, lots to talk about in this episode, and it's going to be a great couple episodes.
But first, let's jump into the news of the week. So, your, your wisdom is coming full circle, so to speak. The profitless prosperity notices continue. Talk about Warby Parker.
Steve Dennis 01:39
Yeah, well, I shouldn't laugh about this because I would, I would like to see these companies do better. But I actually dug up an episode, I was posting this on social media, some of the audience members might have seen it, about a prediction I made like three years ago, that we were going to see some of these disruptors hit a wall, then along comes COVID and we get this great acceleration. And I think that, you know, largely served to delay it. But now, we're starting to see the wheels come off from many of these, you know, very high-profile brands.
Steve Dennis 02:06
So, Warby Parker, which I think many people would agree, is probably the strongest of these new DTC brands. Their quarterly earnings came out. And as we've seen this pattern, sales up, but losses getting, getting worse. In fact, for the full year, they had a 37% increase, which is great. But their net loss was 144 million, up considerably from 2020.
So, the other thing they said is that I believe is roughly half of their sales are coming from stores. But as they go forward, and they're going to open, I think something like 30, 35 stores this year, which will get them almost to 200 stores, most of the growth is going to come from stores. But as I look at their loss, you know, it's just, it's just really interesting to me that they are not seeing their profits start to improve. It suggests to me that the stores they've opened, so far at least, are perhaps not performing as well as one would hope.
Michael LeBlanc 03:10
Well, and, and these sales numbers are reverberating back on the valuations, right. I mean, it's, it's almost like they're a category, subcategory retail. So, we're seeing the DTC and DMVB valuations kind of reflect this, I don't know if we call it pessimism or reality. What do you, wh-, how are you thinking about that?
Steve Dennis 03:26
Well, I think it's more reality. Yeah, Allbirds, Stitch Fix, a bunch of other, of, of these brands, in addition to Warby Parker have lost something like half, you know, depends, on a given day, right, but roughly half of their market cap in the last couple of months. And I think it's, it's a combination of three things. One is that maybe the size of you know, the totally address, total addressable markets, not nearly as big as was originally envisioned. And I think as you see these sales increases, kind of start to moderate that, that, you know, is, is a concern for the overall valuation, overall potential.
Second, you know, and we talked about this a lot with, with Dan McCarthy on our episode last year, about just the dynamics of marketing and customer acquisition costs going up, return on advertising coming down. And I think, you know, his privacy of third-party data changes, there's just a lot of things that make it look much more expensive to drive these businesses profitably.
Steve Dennis 04:23
And then lastly, you know, you got the same, the same kind of issues of inflation, supply chain, you know, all these other factors that are hitting retail more, more broadly. One thing I was going to mention just quickly, and I, I did a post for Forbes, this past week on it, it's, it's actually interesting that some of the sort of old school, DTC brands, you know, these brands that have essentially this vertically integrated model like the Warby Parker's of the world but have been around for decades, like William Sonoma, Lands End, Duluth Trading Company, they're actually doing really well. Their sales growth and growth potentials not nearly as, as great as these but, but William Sonoma and Duluth Trading reported this past week, and they've got, you know, very good top line growth and operating margins and you know, 8, 9, 10%. So, really different, different picture. So, it's not like direct to consumer is important to do, to do well on. And that's a little bit of a false comparison. Obviously, lots of companies lose money, as they're, as they're building out, but, but certainly, there's a lot of, a lot of reasons to pause and, and think, you know, maybe because the emperor has no clothes.
Michael LeBlanc 05:29
All right, let's talk about the NRF. I, I was watching the NRF forecast, which I like watching each and every year. I thought it was great, we, our, our friend, Sucharita was on there. So, it was great to see her. Fortunately, the NRF issued their forecast as they do each and every year for retail for 2022, both in physical and in online. What did you think about their numbers?
Steve Dennis 05:50
Yeah, so, you know, obviously, this is the, the US forecast, not a global forecast. But they're predicting between 6 and 8%, which you know, is very, very healthy, certainly well above the average. So, they're pretty optimistic as they often are. And this is coming on an all time, or pretty much all-time record year last year. So, if this forecast comes true, that's, that's very positive.
Now, the thing I think that is really hard to understand or, or dissect here is, we're seeing, you know, a tremendous amount of inflation. So, you know, everything else being equal, given the inflation forecast, I think this suggests that more or less, transactions are going to be pretty flat. Which is, you know, not something we've, I think we talked about this on an earlier episode. I mean, we've, we've been living in this world of 2 or 3% inflation. And so, you didn't really have to say, ‘Well, gee, you know, how much of this sales increase is driven by average unit retail going up?’ Well, this year, I think the answer is a lot.
So, that, that's, that's hard to, to really, completely understand. But, you know, there has been apparel prices have been up a lot, grocery prices are up a lot, gasoline, and which is not embedded in this particular forecast, you know, that's up a lot. But, you know, the increase on gas prices and food prices, you know, is really going to hit lower income customers harder. So, you know, I think we might start to see some substitution effects, you know, depending upon the demographics of the customer, and maybe depending on some of the categories.
Michael LeBlanc 07:17
Yeah, and in, in The Economist narrative, the economist from Jack, the economists from NRF, and, and his guests, they did talk about, you know, their forecasts being adjusted due to things like the war in the Ukraine, which is driving up gas and is going to drive up food price for the next years, right. I mean, foods going to go up for years, not just grains this year, but also proteins next year, because of course, the protein, next year's protein is being fed this year's grains, but they said, they calculated it in, and it moderated their growth percentage, and we'll see 6 and 8, 6 and 8%.
What about eCommerce? It seems to be, what did they call 14% I think for eCommerce?
Steve Dennis 07:52
I think a, a bit lower than that. But, but slower, as I think we might expect, than, than the last couple of years, which were so accelerated by, by COVID, but still quite, quite healthy. I actually think they're eCommerce growth predictions is a little bit on the high side. But again, you know, this gets back to this whole issue of, you know, what is eCommerce anyway? You know, most of these predictions are where you order it. But we're seeing so many large retailers fulfill their orders out of store, that I don't know, I, I don't pay that much attention to the kind of channel predictions as much as you know, it's important to dig into the categories, or to dig into particular retailers’ positions.
Michael LeBlanc 08:34
Well, it's something to keep our eye on as is consumer confidence, right, which has fallen to its lowest level in 11 years. You would think that the COVID pandemic crisis would impact consumer confidence more, but really, we're seeing some waning confidence, which is a leading indicator to perhaps some, some, some sand in the gear, so to speak of, of growth.
Steve Dennis 08:52
Yeah, you know, we yeah, we've seen, as I recall, and I haven't gone back and looked every month on this, but you know, the consumer confidence has not been that strong for a while yet, the consumer keeps spending, and I think on something we can put a link to in the show notes, but Deloitte did this updated report on some of the consumer trends that really get into the differences by, by income.
Steve Dennis 09:16
And I think this is a little bit where, you know, the average numbers don't kind of reveal, the whole picture, because the affluent, and I think this was, was mentioned on the NRF broadcast as well, you've got the affluent consumers that have a lot of discretionary spending power anyway, they've got asset inflation, you know, they can maybe handle these inflationary pressures more.
And then you've got the lower income consumers that don't have much discretionary income to begin with, they're getting squeezed by inflation. And also, you know, to the extent that they benefited from stimulus payments, you know, they've, they've largely run through those, or they don't have the savings to rely on and so, so I think, you know, again, you got to kind of dig into the details to really understand what this means for particular categories and particular retailers.
Michael LeBlanc 09:59
All right, well, let's leave, let's leave all that behind and let's transition now to our, the first episode of our interviews with our fellow RETHINK Retail influencers, global influencers.
But first, we're going to start with Julia Raymond Hare and a Gabriella Bock, who are here to tell us a little bit about what that whole program is all about and, and what it's meant to do and, and how you become a global influencer.
Before we bring on our panelists to discuss what's new and next in Remarkable Retail, Julia Raymond Hare and Gabriella Bock are here with us to share a bit about the top Retail Influencers program.
Steve Dennis 10:34
Yeah, welcome, Julia and welcome Gabriella. Before we hear a little bit more about the program first, can you just quickly tell us a little bit about yourself and about RETHINK Retail?
Julia Raymond Hare 10:44
Sure, I'd love to. Thanks Steve. Thanks, Michael, for having us on. I am the Editor in Chief of RETHINK Retail; we are a leading media outlet covering the retail and D2C space. And we do that through podcasts, magazines, both, both print and digital, and a variety of other mediums and we're super happy to be on the show today.
Gabriella Bock 10:51
Hi, and I'm Gabriella Bock, and thank you again for having us on. I am our Managing Editor and Podcast Producer. So, I oversee all of our content, both editorial and our branded studio content. And then I also produce the Retail Rundown which is our weekly podcast where we dive into the trends and innovations that are transforming this incredible industry. And that show airs every Monday on all of your favorite podcast apps, as well as on our website at rethink.industries.
Michael LeBlanc 11:32
Well, it is great to hear both of your voices. I'm a bit of a fan, not a bit of a fan, I'm a big fan. We've been following your work, and it's really great. So, what has always made, what I've always been curious about Gabriella, can you tell us how the Top Retailer Influencer List came to be? What's the background?
Gabriella Bock 11:48
Yeah, so, our Top Retail Influencer List kind of came into place organically, as journalists were always seeking credible sources. And in our effort to become a voice of authority in the retail news space, we knew we needed to consult with industry thought leaders who could offer us a myriad of different perspectives. We didn't really think of ourselves as the experts, right. We just thought of ourselves as these curious students who are really eager to learn as much as we could about the industry and where the future of commerce is headed.
Gabriella Bock 12:16
And actually, Steve, I think you were one of the first few guests we had on our podcast. So, thank you for, you know, kind of seeing our potential from the start. So, from there, we began to connect more and more with retail analysts and consultants. And we realized we are building this roster of incredibly intelligent individuals who are really influencing the retail industry in big ways. So, we noticed they, they weren't necessarily retailers themselves. And we noticed there were so many meetups and awards for retail executives, but as far as we could tell, there wasn't much out there for the analysts, the authors, the academics, even the retail executive veterans turned consultants. So, in other words, really the people who are influencing this industry just as much as the retailers themselves. So, in a nutshell, our, our tri-list came out of this desire to create and cultivate a community for retail thought leaders, while at the same time really celebrating those who have continuously influenced our own understanding of the retail space.
Steve Dennis 13:17
So, Julia, how does one get on the list? Somehow, Michael and I made it. So, some people might conclude, that your standards are low but that, that doesn't always appear to be the case.
Julia Raymond Hare 13:26
No, the standards are very high. Standards are very high. Steve and Michael, I mean, no competition, but we're all trying to be one of the top podcasts and that's really how it started. But I won't go into that too much. I think Gabriella covered it.
So, I'll just go into how we evaluate our tri’s. So, it was many late nights of sorting through the data, we had hundreds of nominations from last year. And we were doing research, having debates among the selection committee as to who should be included, and we kind of landed on these five categories of influential minds in the industry. So, that includes academia, analysts, associations, experts, and media like ourselves.
Julia Raymond Hare 13:31
So, the qualifications that we look at vary to some degree in each area. But there was really three areas that we looked at with certain factors. So, number one is the industry experience, of course, number two contribution of insight. So, that's, you know, Steve, as well, great published author that could be books, podcasts, like the one we're on right now, published work, how often are you talking about the things that are important to the industry? And how much are you contributing commentary and insights? And then the third one is reach.
Julia Raymond Hare 14:47
So, this one's interesting, because it's, it is about how many followers do they have, how much awareness is around their materials and their content. And it's not just B2C. So, we think a lot about influencers as being people selling, you know, lip gloss to you online. I don't know, that's just an example. But it's always been a factor.
Michael LeBlanc 15:06
(crossover talk) Maybe barbecue.
Julia Raymond Hare 15:06
There you go, barbecue, grilling stuff. (crossover talk) Absolutely. And the B2B space has always had influencers, you know, deals, especially at the executive level, are made through handshakes a lot of times still today. But it's much more transparent now with social media, who has a lot of influence who people are looking to, to be the guiding light. So, those are the three areas and obviously, the formula changes. If you're in media versus academic, we use slightly different standards. But, at the same time, we're trying to find the best of the best in each of these categories.
Julia Raymond Hare 15:39
So, for those of you listening, shameless plug here, make sure to follow the #TRI2022 across all the main social platforms, you can follow the Tri Twitter list to see all the influencers new content, and you can nominate yourself or someone you know. We've created a short URL, you can go to bit.ly/triapply. So, that's B-I-T dot L-Y slash T-R-I apply. My vision is that we have this amazing group of people, and they're helping guide the industry on topics that are important to retailers. And you know, one example the metaverse. Whether you think it's a flip or a flop, we need to know what the influencers are thinking to illuminate the topic and move it forward because no one person can do it all, no one company can do it all. And we're so excited for what's to come.
Michael LeBlanc 16:32
Well, this has been great, because it's a great setup. You know, you talked about the best and brightest. And Steve and I are thrilled that we've got both of you to, to open us up to our conversations for this episode, the next episode, where we do actually invite some of the best and brightest search sharing and many of the influencers have been on our respective podcast. So, listen, thanks so much for joining us, giving us the backstory. It's really interesting and, and thank you for your contribution from, from Steve and I, and from all of us and the industry. It's really, it's really a great, it's really a great benefit to the industry. So, thanks for joining us.
Julia Raymond Hare 17:06
Thanks for having us.
Gabriella Bock 17:07
Yeah, thanks so much for your support. It's always great to chat with the two of you.
Michael LeBlanc 17:12
Well, we are so thrilled to have the esteemed panel that we have pulled together today in this is the, as we said the first part of a two-part episode where we're diving into insights from our fellow RETHINK top global retail influencers. Let's start where, well let's start at the beginning. Quick introductions, can you tell us a little bit more about yourselves and a sense of your, what you do as a personal journey, professional journey and your current role? Alicia why don't you go first.
Alicia Esposito 17:38
Sure, absolutely. Happy to be here. I'm Alicia Esposito, the VP of Content for Retail TouchPoints. And I've actually been with Retail TouchPoints since I graduated from college, which is always a fun little fact. I started as a reporter and editor. And now, I essentially oversee our entire content strategy across our media network. So, our site and newsletter, everyday news content strategy for our event, the Retail Innovation Conference and Expo, and everything in between. So, anything involving retail and content creation, media, that's my day to day. I'm happy to be here.
Michael LeBlanc 18:14
All right, thank you. Welcome, Nikki.
Nikki Baird 18:16
Yeah, I was just recently reminded that I bill myself in some places as a Retail Technology Maven. So, I, I'll use that today. I, I've definitely done just about everything you can do around technology from selecting it and implementing it, to helping others select and implement, to selling it to retailers. And right now, I look after the future and interpret what that future could bring for both our customers as well as our own products and solutions at Aptos.
Michael LeBlanc 18:53
I love that I look after the future, it's in good hands.
Nikki Baird 18:56
It needs looking after these days for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 18:58
Yeah, it needs a lot of looking after these days.
Steve Dennis 18:59
We, we also paid double for Mavens by the way. So, (crossover talk)
Michael LeBlanc 19:04
Well, the scale is double for Mavens. Ricardo, tell, talk about yourself a bit.
Ricardo Belmar 19:09
Thanks, Michael. So, I'm with Microsoft currently and my role here is to work with some amazing Microsoft partners and help find new ways to go to market together with them to kind of help us both grow our business by solving as many retailer challenges as we can. Also, these days hosting my own podcast, so quick plug for that, and The Retail Razor Show and, but this is sort of a continuation of my 20 plus year journey across different technology providers all serving retailers in one form or another.
I've been involved in technologies you know, wide ranging from data networking, communications and data security, Wifi, digital signage and training and learning systems. And now, obviously, based mostly on cloud-based technologies for retailers So, I, I off-, sometimes, although not often have folks kind of call me a retail tech guru for retailers. So, I'll let that sit there. But I, -
Steve Dennis 20:06
We pay triple for gurus.
Ricardo Belmar 20:08
Well, that's good to know. That's good to know. I'll, I'll hope that I'll be invited back again and then in that case. Yeah, but I generally view my role, as you know, helping retailers and, and consumer goods brands to just maximize the value of the technology investments they're making.
Steve Dennis 20:22
Excellent. Well, we are super excited to have you guys here with all the different perspectives you can bring to bear. So, today, we're going to be talking about what's new, and what's next when it comes to remarkable retail.
Now, I often get asked when I'd say ‘Remarkable’, what do I mean, and I mean, not only the way I think most people probably think about that word, which is something that is highly distinctive, and memorable. But I also, mean something that literally people will talk about, something that's so intensely customer relevant, emotionally connecting, that our customers help spread the word.
Steve Dennis 20:58
So, we're going to dig into business models that are remarkable, technologies that are remarkable, customer experiences that are remarkable, and really making a difference. Okay, so with that as a quick backdrop, why don't we talk about some of the customer experiences that you all are seeing, specifically within brick-and-mortar locations. Whether we're talking about large legacy retailers, or maybe some smaller up-and-coming retailers. So, Nikki, why don't we start with you? What are some examples of what you were seeing that you think is really making a difference right now, at store level for retailers?
Nikki Baird 21:30
Yeah, everything that I'm seeing right now, I have to say, like, I wish it was innovative, right. But it's, it's really stuff that's been around for a long time. It's just that the business case, and the urgency and justification has changed a lot. And one of the biggest ones right now is, is mobile, is mobile devices for store associates, which I was like, how you know, 2003, how 2008, to, to, to bring these back.
But, when you combine, you know, labor shortages, and just the cost of labor, and how much more is happening in stores, and how much those store associates have to support so many more activities than they have, really up until now, that it's really put an extra urgency around putting mobile capabilities into the hands of store associates. And, you know, and every retailer today is like, and this time, I really mean it. So, we'll, we'll see. But that's, that is definitely a high priority right now.
Steve Dennis 22:32
And maybe just a quick follow up on that. What, I mean, obviously, a lot has happened by virtue of COVID by itself, but one of the things Michael and I have talked about a bunch, we did an episode on this recently is, you know, why does it take a crisis for retailers to innovate? Do you have any perspectives on, on that particular question?
Nikki Baird 22:49
I mean, I think to some degree, it's just because they're, they're very conservative. And, you know, even for being in a consumer industry, it's, it's part of what's given me my 20 plus year career that I've had, is that they, you know, when you have to multiply this across hundreds of stores, then they tend to be very risk averse in what they're going to put in that store. And, you know, when you look at just the cash outlay of what they have to invest from a technology perspective, compared to the typical margins of your typical retailer, they're, you know, they're not very excited to put out that huge cash outlay. They'd rather plow that money into inventory or into more stores. And so, I think that contributes significantly to a great deal of conservati-, conservatism in the in the retail industry.
Steve Dennis 23:39
How about you, Ricardo, what's, what's your perspective?
Ricardo Belmar 23:43
Well, you know, maybe I'll focus on one of my favorite brands, and that's Lego. And some of the things they do in their flagship stores, I always have a good time visiting those stores when I try to venture out. And, you know, back in the days when we all used to travel, I suppose, but that's hopefully coming back now.
But Lego for me, you know, they, they really know how to build an immersive in store experience that I, I think is just fun for all ages, and I think just recognizes they know their target market, right. It's the children that are playing with Legos, but I think maybe equally important, it's the parents that are buying the toys for their, for their kids. That certainly works in, in my household, as I'm sure many, many others with, parents out there with kids.
Ricardo Belmar 24:25
And that, to me, I think they, they really blend physical and digital nicely in the stores. They have, like a brick land that lets you, you can build things with bricks, and then you can play with them in a virtual space. And then likewise, you can kind of start in the other direction. You can take digital photos of yourself and have their system kind of creates a Lego set of you, which I think is also pretty clever. So, I think they, they do a really good example of what we talk a lot about experiential retail and immersive experiences. So, I kind of hold them up as a good example and maybe a little bit along the lines of what Nikki was talking about.
Ricardo Belmar 24:59
I think REI does a lot of interesting things to help their store associates and their store teams work better. One of my favorite pandemic stories is how they turn the moment when their stores were forced to close. I think if everybody remembers, you know, those, those days in 2020, they used that as a, a means to start doing like someone in one engagement with store associates via some collaborative tools and video conferencing tools. They were able to actually schedule appointments with customers, and they call them I think virtual outfitter journeys. That was something that they, you know, they kept doing it, even after stores opened, they kept doing it, customers liked it, they, they saw 86% customer satisfaction with those sessions. And they've just continued investing in technology for their store associates. And I think, again, like Nikki was saying is one of those things where you're wondering, oh, these aren't new technologies, we could have been using these 10 years ago. Granted, all these technologies have incrementally improved, right, over the years.
Steve Dennis 24:59
Yeah.
Ricardo Belmar 24:59
So, maybe they're a little easier to use now.
But, if, if I do, I am always fascinated that, you know, it's, it's one of these things where the necessity is the mother of invention, right? And the, if there's something good we take out of the pandemic era for retailers is that being forced to innovate turns out, that's a good thing. And I think the big lesson from that is that retailers, at least most of the ones I've been talking to have learned that it doesn't have to take six months to roll anything out anymore, you actually can-do things in six weeks time. And, along with that, it turns out that you don't have to have 100% of the solution ready to go before you put it out there. It's okay to have maybe 80%, but then, you know, a few weeks later, you iterate again, and now it's 85%, complete. And a few weeks after that, maybe it's 90%-95%. You just keep going until you get it to where you want it to be. But you're at least making progress rather than just waiting for that elusive 100% mark to someday, in the future, arrive.
Steve Dennis 26:56
Yeah, now, I think, I think that's an important point. What have you got Alicia to share with us?
Alicia Esposito 27:02
Yeah, so, I think to somewhat latch on to the point that Ricardo was making about Lego I, I agree. I think the thoughtful integration of technology into the experience is something worth noting. I think, you know, the retailers that we've been covering and focusing in on are the ones that are, are looking at technology, in a more strategic and thoughtful way versus like, oh, this is, you know, the new cool thing, like, let's roll it out and see what happens. Like there's a lot of thought and intention behind it.
I think the other thing to call out, though, about Lego is that, you know, what we've seen in a lot of their stores, is there's that little nod to the local community, the area that, that particular store is in. And I know, we saw it in their New York City flagship, a lot of the design elements and vignettes, you know, pay, pay tribute to New York City.
Alicia Esposito 27:52
And I think that's a, a much broader trend that I'm, I'm very excited to see unfold, you know, among different retailers; how they're bringing in that community connection into their store experiences, whether that's through the actual design and execution of the store, whether that's through events, and you know, opportunities to connect, or whether that's through giving back.
I've been, I'm going to keep a close eye on like Footlocker, who's been doing this in, in a multitude of ways, like with their dedicated kids experience or kids shop. But also, brands like Good Market, which, you know, is built around this coffee shop like experience, but it's highly curated. So, their whole goal is to bring in adjacent brands, you know, brands that support the mission of doing good, right. And, and furthering communities. And they also create opportunities for the founders of these companies to come in, share their stories, meet their customers, and I think creating those moments of gathering, I know, ultimately, the goal is to sell, right. I mean, it is retail, after all, but creating those moments that make sense for the brand and for the customer to come together and make everyone feel closer to that community is definitely something that, you know, I've been keeping a close watch on and I'm excited to see what other brands do to bring that to life.
Steve Dennis 29:18
You know, what I pick up from what you're saying, and thinking about some other examples is, these are things that, you know, that, that in person experience really is hard to recreate online, right? I mean, it's really taking,
Alicia Esposito 29:32
For sure.
Steve Dennis 29:33
Advantage of that tactile experience, or wanting to be connected, or being, being social. So, no, I think those are great examples. Maybe Lego should sponsor the show, though, since they're getting so much love from you guys.
Michael LeBlanc 29:46
Ricardo, I want to follow up on one of things that we've been talking about, in a general sense and we, you know, we've talked about the pandemic as, as a great accelerator and many existing trends. From your perspective, are there ones that stand out as more impactful than others in, in the, you know, as a result of the COVID era and things that are built to last?
Ricardo Belmar 30:06
Yeah, I very much believe that all of these new convenience-oriented capabilities retailers, you're in essence or, or in many ways forced to introduce during the pandemic, but, consumers, I believe have just embraced every single convenience capability that, that we've seen, you know. It started out with functions like buying online, pick up in store, and we added curbside to that, we've got more and more same day delivery options, it feels like almost every day. And even same day now right, is becoming so 2019 because now you got to have it in an hour, or 15 minutes. So, I think consumers continue to embrace these things.
Ricardo Belmar 30:39
I think retailers are still figuring out right, how to make them work potentially in a profitable way. But I'll, I'll put that point aside for a minute.
But I think the way this evolves and the reason why I think these have staying power, is you look at a recent example that I am really favorable on is what Target announced about adding the ability to order Starbucks, you know, when you come to a drive-up pickup at the time you get there. So, it's, you know, I'm basically now adding an ability to just shop what used to be inside the store, I'm going to be able to shop for some of these things at curbside, by just using the mobile app and adding to my order when I get prompted when I get there. And I think that kind of evolution of bringing the inside of the store to the outside, so to speak, is, is just a, a validation that these convenience capabilities have become so much more important than they used to. So, I think those all have staying power.
Ricardo Belmar 31:29
I, I do think that it may vary by category. So, you know, the counter example that I've noticed, at least in my part of the region here, is in the home improvement stores. So, the home improvement stores like Home Depot, Lowe's, they added, you know, I lost track how many parking spaces during the pandemic, they started devoting to curbside pickup. It started to feel like almost half the lot. But now, when I go there, it's very few spaces reserved for that. And I don't often see cars parked there waiting for that kind of curbside pickup.
But then contrast that with a, a Target store where I, I think that drive up, those drive-up lanes are always busy when I go by there. Now, so, I think that there is some variation that, we used to talk about generalities, right. We used to broadly generalize a lot of these retail capabilities. And now I think going forward, we have to be more specific in terms of which product categories we're talking about for them.
Michael LeBlanc 32:21
That's a great point. Basically, mileage may differ as, as Steve would exactly say. Nikki, what's not built to last? I mean, are we going to be stuck with QR codes for the rest of our lives? Is there, is there something here we can say that happened, and it's technology and, you know, it's just not going to be around? And maybe I'll put back on the table that the finance, you know, the economics don't even work. Anything come to mind?
Nikki Baird 32:41
Yeah, I mean, I have been watching live streaming with lots of fascination. And I probably would put it in that category where, during the pandemic, especially in the early days, it kind of sprung up organically, right. It was store associates taking the initiative on their own and doing, you know, whatever they could, and retailers sort of jumping in behind to support them. It was huge in China, had a huge impact. And then we saw some Western retailers also adopt the technology. But where I see it heading is there's, there's just such a lack of trust in store associates to be the face of the brand. I think it's a terrible mistake.
Nikki Baird 32:41
And I see retailers consolidating right. Like, they're like, instead of having this be organic, and our store associates are going out and doing this and we're rewarding them, we're going to consolidate this and we're going to bring it into our corporate headquarters, and we're going to have a studio, and it's going to be really professional. And I just feel like if they do that, that, that's pretty much going to be the death knell of live streaming. Like sure it'll make some money, but it's not going to be what it could have been,
Michael LeBlanc 33:48
Alic-, Alicia what do you think about, you know, if you turn your 3D printer on for a second, and we can talk about technology that just didn't seem to last. Anything come to mind from, from your perspective? Are you taking drone deliveries in your backyard or virtual glasses as you walk into stores? (crossover talk)
Alicia Esposito 34:04
Oh, yeah. It's funny, you bring up virtual glasses. I, I was just looking at some footage from Fashion Week and saw a few posts trying to push Ray Bans that include photo capabilities and then instant sharing on Instagram. I'm like, I don't know about that. I, I think that, -
Michael LeBlanc 34:08
I, I think the CIA might be a good customer for those but I'm (crossover talk)
Alicia Esposito 34:33
Yeah, and, you know, it just like brings me back to like, the whole Google Glass thing and like, I don't, I don't know if we're ready for all of that. So, -
Steve Dennis 34:41
Scott Galloway said Google Glasses are the greatest form of birth control ever invented, that it makes you instantly unattractive.
Speaking of, maybe being a little bit more future looking, maybe we don't, we don't love Google Glasses or, or similar technology, but maybe you guys could help us separate out from your perspective, what is, what are some of those things that are going to be interesting things to watch for the future that sort of break out of that hype cycle versus the bright and shiny objects? So, whether it's the metaverse and NFT's, you know, what, what's, what's on your radar screen? Anyone want to try to see if their crystal ball is working today?
Nikki Baird 35:25
I have to jump on the 3D printing kind of dis there. Because I see lots of retailers, very interested in customization of products in stores. So, I don't know that it would necessarily go so far, I know, you know, Adidas, and Nike, and some of those guys have experimented with 3D printed shoes that you could potentially have a box in the store that prints your shoe for you. But this idea of, of leveraging automation, in order to provide some kind of mass customization at a local scale, I think is, is really interesting.
It's sort of like Build-A-Bear for shoes, or jeans, or jackets, or purses. And it does seem like there's lots of retailers, not just luxury retailers, but, but lots of retailers that seem to be very interested in that customization. And I think, part of the reason why they are interested, is it because it's a form of entertainment in its own way, right. It, it actually is the kind of thing that you want to come to the store and see. And, you know, I've picked out all of the things that are going to go on my jean jacket, -
Michael LeBlanc 36:39
That's a good point.
Nikki Baird 36:40
And then I'm going to watch you put them all on. And then I get to take my jacket away and share it with everybody right away, right. It's got lots of elements that are really great for the store.
Alicia Esposito 36:48
I think just to add to that, too. I mean, I've been keeping a close eye on Model Number. They do 3D printed furniture for that level of customization, but also, just for a more efficient and sustainable approach to product development. So, I mean, jury's still out on, you know, the long-, longevity of, of 3D printing as, as a business model. But, you know, it's definitely interesting to see the different use cases and see where and, and how that could turn into a, a longer-term business model. So, -
Ricardo Belmar 37:19
Well, I think I'll be the one to jump on the metaverse and NFT's, Steve, since you brought that up.
Steve Dennis 37:25
But I was going to call on you (crossover talk) to volunteer.
Alicia Esposito 37:28
I'll add something on NFT's too, Ricardo, so it's not just you. I have some opinions there.
Ricardo Belmar 37:32
Great, okay, perfect so you'll back me up on that one. So, so, admittedly, my crystal ball is a little bit murky on this one, and maybe a little cloudy. But I think that, really for me, the, the name of the game here and these areas, is just to experiment this year.
I, I, my crystal ball does not show that there are going to be a lot of retailers really moving the needle on revenue with these, with the metaverse and NFT's, but it's about experimenting. I, I, I'm again hopeful that the lesson learned through the pandemic was that it's okay to do things quickly, it's okay to innovate, it's okay to experiment and if it doesn't work out, that's okay, you move on to the next attempt. And that's how I think retailers should look at metaverse and NFT's. And the one thing I think maybe I will put out there for anybody listening to, to please don't, in the please don't do category, is please don't just create a virtual version of your store that's built on aisles and shelves. And second,
Alicia Esposito 38:24
Yes, yes.
Ricardo Belmar 38:25
Let's not expect consumers to figure out how to get the virtual sweater off the rack and into the virtual shopping cart, because I don't think anyone's going to enjoy that experience. (crossover talk) And the whole point is to be creative, right, and to do things in a new, interesting way. And, and I think the, you know, there.
I expect there to be some breakout cases, you know, by the end of the year where we're going to be sitting around a table come the holiday season saying, ‘Wow, that was a really interesting, interesting new thing that brand XYZ did’, right. And there were going to be a couple of those, I think. I don't ex-, again, don't, don't expect a lot of moving the needle. But both, in the metaverse and in NFT's, I think the mistake here is to not try to do anything this year.
Michael LeBlanc 39:04
We're coming up on our time and other than triggering everyone by typ-, by dissing 3D printers. Let me ask you this last question. Let's do some quick takes one large retailer, let's call them a legacy retailer, to watch this year, something interesting is going to happen in one up and comer that our audience might, might not know of and put on their radar screen. Nikki let's start with you.
Nikki Baird 39:24
Bed Bath and Beyond in the legacy category. Ryan Cohen of chewy.com fame, and GameStop fame has invested and I, I will be very interested to see what he thinks he can do with Bed Bath and Beyond. They're definitely are right to be remade in a new image.
And then up and comer, No Goal. So, a fitness brand that came out of the CrossFit world. Very experiential oriented and I am very intrigued by some of the things that they're doing.
Michael LeBlanc 39:55
All right, Ricardo, you're up next.
Ricardo Belmar 39:57
All right, well, I think Nik-, Nikki stole my legacy retailer because I too am also very interested in what's going to happen with Bed Bath and Beyond. I think that's the one to watch. I'm avoiding mentioning any department store names, because I think maybe that's been talked about quite, quite a lot, lately.
For my up and comer, I'll give you a two for one there because they're both similar, I think, two concepts. One is brick and click, and the other is retail OS. I think that this trend that we've seen with these digitally native brands moving into stores is going to continue and, rather than they're just randomly continuing by opening stores on their own, I think concepts like brick and click and retail OS are going to help them do it in a more interesting, curated manner, are, are something to watch.
Michael LeBlanc 40:40
All right, Alicia, bring us home.
Alicia Esposito 40:42
I'm going to try and go with a different legacy retailer. I think I'm going to go with Nordstrom. I'm curious to see, you know, how they embrace retail media as, as a business model. Just because, you know, I feel like they've been taking a very authentic and, and thoughtful approach to their brand partnerships and how they kind of curate brands, spotlight brands, and develop partnerships. So, like, how will media and you know, possibly monetized content play into that entire ecosystem and make content nervous showing? I'm sorry, -
Michael LeBlanc 41:16
What do you, what do you make, what do you make of their podcast? Have you, have you listened to the Nordy yet?
Alicia Esposito 41:20
Yeah, you know, I, I love that. I love any opportunity where brands can kind of dig into show that face of, an-, and that personality a little bit more. And I think the idea of brands showcasing like founder stories is really interesting.
Actually, going back to Good Market, they take a similar approach, you know, like, the brand partners and, and the charitable giving partners they bring on, they go on the podcast and dig deeper into the story. So, I think it kind of allows those barriers to be brought down a little bit. So, I'm, I'm all for it. But again, I'm, I'm the content person in the room. So, I’m saying give me all the content and all the time.
Michael LeBlanc 42:00
All right, and who haven't we heard of that you're excited about?
Alicia Esposito 42:03
And they may not necessarily be up and coming right now. But I'm, I'm keeping an eye on some of the work that Rebag is doing. I think they're a really interesting example of, you know, a, a brand in that retail space, but they're also in stores now. They're also, you know, rolling out, or they have rolled out already, their, their new loyalty program. And like, there have been a lot of interesting discussions around loyalty programs, you know, the efficacy of them, how to kind of rethink them to be a bit more engaging. So, that's one.
And also, Italic is another really interesting marketplace type brands, that does direct relationships with manufacturers to create luxury level goods for a fraction of the price. And they also have a really great membership model. So, I think this whole notion of like loyalty programs and membership models, you know, ways that brands are kind of creating these highly curated and immersive experiences for their customers in a way that's like authentic and meaningful at the brand level. That's definitely something that I'm keeping a close watch on.
Steve Dennis 43:10
Well, that's terrific. One might even say "remarkable". We appreciate all your perspectives. And of course, we just really touched the tip of the iceberg, here. And all three of you have got great presence in your respective positions and some of your social media things, Ricardo’s podcasts. So, if listeners want to get in touch with you, or follow your work, maybe you each could just quickly give us the best place to connect with you, Alicia?
Alicia Esposito 43:35
Sure. You can go to our podcast, Retail Remix. I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter, but largely LinkedIn, you can find me at Alicia Esposito, and of course, retailtouchpoints.com.
Steve Dennis 43:47
Alright. How about you, Nikki?
Nikki Baird 43:49
So, Twitter, LinkedIn and Forbes are the places that you will find me.
Steve Dennis 43:53
Excellent, and Ricardo?
Ricardo Belmar 43:55
So, in addition to the podcast, you can find me on Twitter. It's Ricardo underscore Belmar, and of course, on LinkedIn.
Steve Dennis 44:01
All right, and we will be sure to put some links in the show notes in case folks didn't get that down. But I want to thank you guys for coming on the Remarkable Retail podcast and wish you all the best. And perhaps we'll see some of you at ShopTalk in a couple weeks.
Michael LeBlanc 44:17
If you liked what you heard, please follow us on Apple, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform so you can catch up with all our great interviews and insights and new episodes will show up each and every week. Be sure to check out our YouTube channel. And last but not least, tell your friends and colleagues in the retail industry, all about us.
Steve Dennis 44:32
And I'm Steve Dennis, author of the best-selling book, ‘Remarkable Retail: How To Win and Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption’. You can learn more about me, my consulting and keynote speaking at stevenpdennis.com
Michael LeBlanc 44:46
And I'm Michael LeBlanc, producer and co-host of the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, The Voice of Retail podcast, keynote speaker and host of the all-new Last Request Barbecue cooking show on YouTube. You can learn even more about me on LinkedIn or meleblanc.co. Have a safe week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
retail, retailers, store, brands, podcast, customers, Ricardo, influencers, pandemic, categories, Gabriella, metaverse, Nikki, consumers, talk, year, technology, Steve, create, Lego