We love lifting up emerging remarkable retailers that may not have (yet) hit our audience's radar screen. So this episode we welcome Rachel Bentley and Carly Nance, the co-founders of The Citizenry, the fast-growing, thoughtfully designed, ethically crafted, home furnishing company. We dig into the inspiration for the brand, the "white space" they seek to address. and how social impact is at the center of what they stand for.
We love lifting up emerging remarkable retailers that may not have (yet) hit our audience's radar screen. So this episode we welcome Rachel Bentley and Carly Nance, the co-founders of The Citizenry, the fast-growing, thoughtfully designed, ethically crafted, home furnishing company. We dig into the inspiration for the brand, the "white space" they seek to address. and how social impact is at the center of what they stand for.
We also delve into the challenges of ethically sourcing products from all over the word, discover how they make their unique leadership partnership work and explore the role of customer-based analytics in growing their brand. Lastly we get a peak into their strategic growth roadmap.
But first we take on the news of the week, including "inflation nation" and how input pricing challenges might manifest for different retailers. We also discuss the current mess that is Peloton and what Canada Goose's earnings whiff suggests about luxury retail's future.
About
Carly & Rachel met in 2004 at university. They led multiple organizations and founded a conference that’s still impacting lives today. After careers on different coasts, they reconnected over a frustration with the mass-produced goods and soulless brands in home décor. Together they created a vision for The Citizenry: a brand that could stand for quality craftsmanship, transparency, and social responsibility.
CARLY NANCE
Carly spent her early career in brand planning & global marketing strategy, helping leading brands connect with their consumers in a more meaningful way. During those travels, she was inspired by the design and stories of the people behind the products she purchased abroad. Carly earned her Masters from Northwestern and her Bachelors in Marketing from Texas A&M. At The Citizenry, Carly leads product design, brand strategy, marketing & ecommerce experience.
RACHEL BENTLEY
After years in strategy consulting, Rachel wanted to establish a business that would make an undeniably positive impact. While at Bain, she spent time in the private equity and retail practices before finding her calling: helping companies launch and redesign consumer products. Rachel earned her MBA from Columbia, her Masters in Finance, and Bachelors in Accounting from Texas A&M. At The Citizenry, Rachel leads our artisan partnerships, production & planning, operations, and finance.
About Us
Steve Dennis is an advisor, keynote speaker and author on strategic growth and business innovation. You can learn more about Steve on his website. The expanded and revised edition of his bestselling book Remarkable Retail: How To Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption is now available at Amazon or just about anywhere else books are sold. Steve regularly shares his insights in his role as a Forbes senior contributor and on Twitter and LinkedIn. You can also check out his speaker "sizzle" reel here.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks , The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and now in its second season, Conversations with CommerceNext! You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Be sure and check out Michael's latest venture for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue, his YouTube BBQ cooking channel!
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to Remarkable Retail podcast, season 4, episode 5. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Steve Dennis 00:10
And I'm Steve Dennis.
Michael LeBlanc 00:11
Steve, we're back on the mic and we have a great interview with the founders of a remarkable retailer, The Citizenry. Now, I wasn't not aware, I actually had seen their store in SoHo and then connected the dots when you started telling me about them. Tell me about them a little bit and how you met the founders?
Steve Dennis 00:27
Well, let's see, I think it's six or seven years ago, where a guy that I know, here in Dallas said, ‘Hey, would you go have coffee, with these two women that I've met, Rachel and Carly, they have a retail concept that they are trying to raise money for. And they would like some feedback’. And so, Rachel, Carley and I met up at Houndstooth Coffee in Dallas, and they took me through their, their pitch deck. They were just doing, they had some friends and family money, I guess at that point, but they were doing a seed round. And I was just, well, I liked the concept very much, which everybody will get to hear more about in a second, but, but I like them very much.
Steve Dennis 01:10
But I also thought it was one of the most coherent, compelling pitch decks, like I was just blown away by how thorough and well done it was. And I was like, I don't know if this is an idea that's got any legs, but I like them and I, and I like their approach to it. And so, I referred them on to a venture capital firm I work with that was who became one of the first investors.
Michael LeBlanc 01:31
Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, I, I as I said, I've seen the store, I've actually walked through the store in SoHo, but didn't make any connection. So, I'm really, it's a great interview. So, I really looking forward to learning more about them and their origin story and, and where they're heading with the brand. So, we'll get to that.
A quick shout out to all our great listeners for, thank you for all your support. And be sure if you have the opportunity, take the opportunity, give us a, give us a rating, maybe even a five-star rating if you, -
Steve Dennis 02:00
I think (crossover talk) should do that, right now. I think we'll just pause, stop, they can hit the little pause button. Go do it right now. No time like the present and we will really appreciate it.
Michael LeBlanc 02:12
Nothing motivates (crossover talk) like a deadline. We're not. Yeah, we're not gonna we're not gonna continue the podcast until we start to see that anyway. Now, thanks to everyone. Really, thanks to everyone for listening. It's really, It's humbling, really. So, thank you.
Michael LeBlanc 02:25
All right, well, let's pop into the news. A relatively slow week yet still action packed with lots going on. Let's talk about inflation-nation. So, there's some numbers out that are showing some pretty intense inflation numbers. How do you think all this is going to sort out? And, and what are your thoughts for 2022 and beyond?
Steve Dennis 02:44
Well, this is going to be a big story, continue to be a big story, the US I think, had the highest inflation in one month than it's had in 40 years. So, you know, we have really been in this environment for the longest time, it seems like were, we really didn't talk about inflation, you know, it was kind of kicking along at 2%, 3%, something like that. So, it wasn't a big factor. And now, inflation is just top of mind.
You know, I think it's kind of this perfect storm of accelerated consumer demand. Because of high discretionary income, government stimulus, all that kind of stuff, obviously, as we've talked about a million times certain categories, like really, really getting amplified because of some of the pandemic forces, and then the supply chain, continuing to be a mess.
Steve Dennis 03:27
So, I suspect, you know, even though I did study economics, I'm certainly not a professional economist, I suspect this is going, inflation is going to be with us for quite some time. I kind of think it will get better, or maybe it's wishful thinking, because I do think consumer needs accelerated consumer demand will start to wane a bit, both because we don't have all that government stimulus, we'll get through at some point, you know, kind of all this pent up demand.
Steve Dennis 03:57
And as we kind of open back up, that's an opportunity for consumers to start to shift some of their spending back towards services away from products. So, I think that will tamp things down a little bit. And you know, aspects of the supply chain will improve. But of course, you know, for you guys up in Canada, keep messing with the transport. Then this supply chain thing is not going to get solved. What, can you do anything about that?
Michael LeBlanc 04:23
Well, I think something's about to be done. We were recording this on Friday. Let's talk about blockades at the border. I mean, and, and this course is not a political podcast. And lots going on here in Canada but let me put a number to you, the amount of traffic that of goods between Canada and the US at this one point the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor, Detroit is $450 million a day that goes between our two great nations. So, yeah, we're having this you know, our very own Canadian seditionist with foreign provocateurs compromised beliefs.
Steve Dennis 04:54
Easy for you to say.
Michael LeBlanc 04:55
Yeah, I know children as shields, lots of political mendacity, but I think this is all coming to an end fairly closely. But yeah, really, it's had a tremendous impact on trade from a whole bunch of different reasons. Trade of food, you know, I've talked to retailers who have entire truckloads of fresh fruit, of course, Canada, you know, we, we import a tremendous amount of fresh fruit up from the US whether it's, -
Steve Dennis 05:19
Sure.
Michael LeBlanc 05:19
California, but most likely Florida. You know, this fruit as you know, just in time, right? I mean, it's packed on the truck. And, and it actually, you know, ripens on the truck on the journey, -
Steve Dennis 05:30
Right.
Michael LeBlanc 05:30
And arrives at the store shelves, which has worked very well for consumers and retailers alike they, you know, they've lo-, they're losing trailers full of fresh fruit. So,
Steve Dennis 05:39
Yeah, well, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:39
There's, there's a whole bunch of implications that are not good.
Steve Dennis 05:43
So, yeah, it certainly couldn't have come at a at a worst time. The other thing, I think, from an inflation standpoint to watch, and I've seen some commentary on this recently is the difference between those retailers that have really strong pricing power. In other words, you know, they can raise prices, and not have it affect demand very much, we've seen several retailers that are crying about all these pressures, but actually had record earnings and how much of that is just the, the nature of the categories they compete in, and how much of that is them, frankly, taking advantage of a difficult situation? So, I sort of hope there'll be some pressure on some of these companies not to be so, so greedy. But you know, I've thought about that my entire life, and nothing, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:47
Yeah.
Steve Dennis 05:49
Seems to happen on that front. But then clearly, we have retailers that are really getting hit by input costs and fulfillment costs going up that just don't have the ability to raise their prices much, if at all, and that, and that's, you know, obviously going to continue to be a real challenge for probably the balance of the year, if not longer.
Michael LeBlanc 06:46
I mean, to put a number to it, I was talking to a retailer who was telling me in the before time, they paid about 7500-8500 for a container of goods, they're now paying between 28 and 35,000, for that, -
Steve Dennis 06:57
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 06:58
Same container of goods, I mean, that's going to leave a mark, right. I mean, it's an input cost. But you know, that's a, you know, that's a tremendous impact. And as you said, both price elasticity on the goods they sell and then the competitive landscape dictates the degree to which they can either absorb that or take prices, you know, the merchants would say, right?
Michael LeBlanc 07:16
All right, let's talk about Peloton. We've talked about it at length, they're back in the news today for a whole bunch of good and not so good reasons. New leadership they had, you know, their stock price rebounded back, but fundamentally, what do you, what are you thinking? And, and what do you think about how they've kind of, you know, conducted themselves over the past couple of weeks?
Steve Dennis 07:35
Well, last week, we were, I think, mostly focused on who might buy them and raise this, this issue of, you know, whoever buys them perhaps catching a falling knife. I don't think they help themselves very much, they reported their earnings and gave some guidance, which, you know, headline terrible.
Michael LeBlanc 07:54
Yeah.
Steve Dennis 07:54
They laid off 2200 people or something and that caused a lot of consternation on the part of -.
Michael LeBlanc 08:01
Did I hear they cut they, they people found out because their Slack channel wasn't working because, (crossover talk), -
Steve Dennis 08:05
Yeah, well one is right, and you would think by now these companies would figure out there, there are better ways to handle this. But yeah, several people will apparent, or most people learn, I guess, because their Slack channel was cut off, and then there were people that like, stormed the virtual town hall meeting or something and lots of (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 08:22
Right, I mean, -
Steve Dennis 08:23
(crossover talk) Yeah, so, -
Michael LeBlanc 08:25
I uploaded the wrong list to Zoom or something you know.
Steve Dennis 08:28
Yeah, so I mean, it's a, there was a I guess, another episode where somebody died from a heart, a Billions episode or whatever (inaudible) I saw, I mean, they can't catch a break. But I think the broader point I mean, hopefully, companies will learn to handle or treat employees a little bit better.
But you know, it's, it's the outlet for these brands not, not great. And whether that is the total, the total addressable market is much smaller than people thought, whether it was you know, obviously, they've spent way too much money relative to revenue to have the kind of loss that they did. So, yeah, new leadership it'll just be interesting to see if they can get you know, a very obviously a very well-known brand, lots of loyal customers but the upside potential here in getting to profitability appear to be very significant challenges.
Michael LeBlanc 09:14
Canada Goose gets their wings clipped. So, Canada Goose had some, had a big turbulence, so to speak, where their stock price took a big hit and, and they made an announcement about some slowing of momentum. So, what did, what did you think of all that? I mean, it, it seems the brand continued to grow. It's back to kind of this discussion, wholesale/retail there is a lot of things wrapped up in this, yeah.
Steve Dennis 09:36
Yeah, I'm a little, you maybe understand this better, far better than I do. I'm a little confused by the news because we've seen pretty good results and some of it for sure is easy comparisons from quite a lot of high-end brands. You know, the rich keep getting richer, etc. So, there's, there's clearly spending power there and with people going back out a little bit more, you know, blah, blah, blah. So, so for, for Canada Goose to, to struggle as much, now I know they are very, very reliant on the China market, you know, perhaps more so than, than many other brands and that seemed to be a problem. But I don't know, what do you think was a little, a little confusing to me?
Michael LeBlanc 10:19
Yeah, it's interesting because their sales were, in China they reported up to 60%, which is good numbers to have. But they've had a couple of missteps in some (inaudible) goals that you would say in the soccer world or football world in China with some criticisms around posts and some return policies. So, now they've acquiesced to a 14-day exchange policy in China. I guess, you know, what China gives, China takes away right, so the momentum goes with you or against you and that's a pretty, a pretty big swing if you're not careful.
Steve Dennis 10:45
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc10:46
And I think they're also talking about slowdowns in, in Europe. I don't know, maybe they're the goose in the coal mines so to speak. You know, is, is, are we now starting to see, you know, we've long talked about the transition from goods to services as people's lives get to whatever new normal looks like, maybe this is an indicator of how many more great jackets. I love the product, by the way, I have one myself, I wish them all the best, but it'll be interesting to watch and for a whole bunch, (crossover talk), -
Steve Dennis 11:13
Yeah, I mean, in a weird way. They're sort of like what we've said about Peloton and some other more kind of big-ticket brands, where the product line is pretty limited. You know, when you buy that new washer and dryer, you buy that new, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:28
Yeah.
Steve Dennis 11:29
Sofa, you buy a Peloton, you buy a Canada Goose, I mean, I realize they have some other products. But you know, when you think about their core item, I don't know, many, many people certainly it's not the broadest part of the market that's buying three or four Canada Goose coats, right? So, once you've found that, you know, center of the bull's eye kind of customer, that's probably more about selling them other kinds of product items. But, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:51
Yeah.
Steve Dennis 11:51
Yeah, they may have gotten sort of this COVID bounce that is going to be hard to, to take to the next level.
Michael LeBlanc 11:57
All right, well, listen, that's great overview. As I said, we'll be back as we always are each and every week, we kind of hit the high notes, the hot takes so to speak. But now let's get into our fantastic interview with the founders of The Citizenry.
Steve Dennis 12:12
Well, Michael and I are excited to welcome Rachel and Carly, the founders of The Citizenry, to our podcast, fellow Dallasites. Maybe not originally from Dallas, but anyway, we're not too far away from each other. But welcome to the podcast. How are you guys today?
Rachel Bentley 12:29
We're great. Steve, thank you so much for having us.
Carly Nance 12:31
Excited to be here.
Steve Dennis 12:32
Well, thanks. We've actually been chasing you for a little while. But you were, you were busy building your business and raising some money and things like that, which we'll get to in a minute. But what we like to do when we start off the podcast is just have each of you share a little bit about your, your background, your professional journey and kind of how you guys came together to found a company together. So, Carly, would you mind kicking off on that?
Carly Nance 12:56
Sure. So, my background, I am a brand strategist by trade. I got my master's in integrated marketing right out of undergrad where I met Rachel which we can talk about a little bit later. And then went on to have a career at ad agencies in New York helping some of the biggest brands in the world endear themselves to consumers like Oreo, Fisher Price, Jamaica Tourism Board, that was a fun one.
Carly Nance 13:21
But I was getting to the stage in my career where I wanted to put my money where my mouth was. Go build a brand that shaped consumer culture for the better and a brand that was a combination of a number of my personal passions for travel, design, doing something good in the world. And it was conversations around those passions that led Rachel and I back together.
Rachel Bentley 13:45
Hi, this is Rachel, and I started my career on, on finance. I did my undergraduate in accounting, my master's in finance, and then jumped into the world of strategy consulting at Bain & Company. Working with companies on a wide variety of issues, but then ultimately ended up focusing on private equity backed companies within the Bain practice. And I was actually spending a decent amount of time working in global supply chains in Asia.
And I think that experience really began to give me the insight into some of the biggest issues that are facing our world today around both human rights and the environment and just how significantly global supply chains were impacting those things and how closely they were tied to the global financial markets. And so those two things began to get me thinking more seriously about how I was going to personally use my skills and my time to try to make a positive impact with what I was doing professionally.
Michael LeBlanc 14:54
Tell us about Citizenry. I'm on the website have actually been in the store, I wandered in, years ago. I probably just right when you first opened, beautiful store and I love the assortment. I was looking at the Hinoki wood from Japan, I think you got a few things on my wish list. Tell me about the inspiration and, and the gap you're looking to fill in the marketplace. Not like furniture isn't a, a crowded category, and, and how are you positioning the brand to, to win and to stand out?
Carly Nance 15:20
Sure Michael, that's a great question. So, years ago, Rachel and I were had just moved from New York, and we're furnishing a home, you know, more than just a small studio space for the first time. And the two of us just found the home decor shopping experience, you know, to your point, a little cluttered, a little uninspiring, and there was just a lot of mass-produced dime a dozen, you saw the same types of things in the market. And what we really saw, because we both come from some consumer insight background is that consumers were really wanting more premium artisanal things, particularly the millennial consumer, which we are.
Carly Nance 15:58
And so, we saw that demand shift categories like food with the farm to table movement, and fashion with the rise of some independent designers. And we thought it was only a matter of time before this desire for more premium artisanal, interesting things from around the world would hit the home decor market.
Carly Nance 16:18
And so, when you're thinking about the home decor market at the time, people could either find those things on Etsy, scouring around, or really high-end boutiques. And we saw this massive opportunity for a brand in the middle that you know, made these really beautiful artisanal well-crafted things from around the world more accessible to all and did so in a way that was tailored to our generations style, standards and values.
Carly Nance 16:47
So, creating a supply chain that did good in the world, and Rachel can talk about that a little bit more, but also a brand that just made the experience more inspiring something like the next best thing to traveling the world and, and meeting these makers and bringing that to life online.
Michael LeBlanc 17:04
Yeah, it's a wonderful product. Rachel let's pick up on that. So, social responsibility, clearly at the core of everything you do, when I hear things about sourcing around the world, you know, everyone now knows these words supply chain compared to a couple of years ago where it was kind of an esoteric function. Talk about how you, you it's almost like a, a round peg in a square hole some days, it's how you put these two words in the in the same place a, an efficient supply chain that allows you to, you know, put the right margin get the right product, and, you know, sustainability. And is it sustainable, like how do you how do you do those two things at the same time?
Rachel Bentley 17:40
It's a tremendous challenge, and you are going to give up something to get something else. But I think the experience that I had, working in global supply chains and for massive companies prior was that I really began to realize that most of the products we consume today require tremendous amounts of human labor at very low cost. And that's why people have sourced internationally and brought this product to the US for years.
Rachel Bentley 18:05
And I think when you begin to see those conditions and challenges that exist across the supply chains today, begin to realize just the impact that we were having. And so, in order to create a more sustainable supply chain, I think we have to talk about what is fairly paid from a human standpoint. And then also you have to think about sustainability in terms of the environment. And I think companies often lean to address the environmental one, because it is I think, a little bit easier, and maybe a little bit more cost effective. But you hear very few people talk about what it means to have fair wages, have fairly paid labor, and what is you know, considered a sustainable wage.
Rachel Bentley 18:53
And so, it's something that has been foundational to our model from the beginning with that we work with artisans around the world to create these beautifully crafted home goods. And we are working with really high-quality materials and really skilled craftsmen in order to do that. And we are also doing our best to ensure that they are making well above minimum wage, our average is between two and a half and three times minimum wage and that we're really pushing that living wage and that everything we are doing is abiding by World Fair Trade principles.
Rachel Bentley 19:28
And, and I think the only way that is possible is for it to be a core foundational principle of your business and of your business model. And that as you continue, you remain true to that. And then you make tradeoffs in other parts of your business in terms of we can't pay maybe the highest market rates in terms of our team salaries here, or maybe you can't make the investment into really beautiful, you know, brand awareness, marketing, like things like that. You're going to make some tradeoffs when you give up certain margin dollars. But for us, I think that trade off in terms of how the products was, were are made is, is really important.
Michael LeBlanc 20:17
I just want to follow that thread for a little bit talk about the trade craft of finding those suppliers. Because in any world, not just the COVID era, finding great suppliers, great vendors, and, you know, sourcing that and working with them, you know, even, even taking away all your great strategies around sustainability in fair trade is not easy. How do you, how do you go about finding those diamond, you know, not even diamonds in the rough, but those are artisanal products that, that makes sense for you? Because then you got to filter that down too, it's got to be the right product, the right place delivered at the right time, at the right volume. Talk, talk about that a little bit.
Rachel Bentley 20:54
That's a great question. Everything that we do at The Citizenry has been designed and developed for The Citizenry. We're not just going out and finding a product and then bringing it to market. So, I think that's an important distinction.
Rachel Bentley 21:05
But then additionally, we're looking for really high potential partners that maybe don't have the experience of exporting their product but are doing really beautiful things, or really beautiful work within their home country. And we are bringing an additional skill set to them to help them around either capacity building in terms of, at their production, getting ready to export.
Rachel Bentley 21:31
Managing logistics, I think we have had to take the approach of being much more flexible, much more adaptable, and much more involved in the building process of our artists and partner groups there. I, I don't think there are many of our partners to date that we walked into, and they were ready to go. And it has been a building process, just as we have been building and scaling our own business, we've been building and scaling with artisans co-operatives around the world.
Carly Nance 22:01
And I think, Rachel, that's an important distinction from, for how we started is that, you know, these, Michael to your point, these products didn't exist at the right price, and the right time, and the right design. And so, what we do is we go find partners, we go find people with incredible capabilities.
Carly Nance 22:22
And as Rachel said, we work with them. Versus finding products around the world. And I think that's why we chose the name The Citizenry in the beginning, because we're about a collective of people working together to create and bring these products to market, not just us going sourcing and putting it on a website, because that already existed.
Steve Dennis 22:42
Well, it's, (crossover talk) it's really amazing, what I mean, I realize you guys are still relatively early in, in the whole process here. But I was reflecting in preparation for this interview about when I first met you guys, I, I think it was close to seven years ago, when you were first raising money. And we were introduced by a mutual acquaintance who asked me, I guess you were interested in getting perhaps some advice, I don't know if my, I don't know if my advice was very useful. But as you approached deciding what this business was going to look like, and how you were going to raise money and build it. What, what was the approach you took because it did seem like you had a really unique angle on this compared to at least most of what I've seen.
Steve Dennis 23:11
But I do remember being struck by how well thought out and comprehensive and analytically based I guess, for lack of a better term, your pitch deck was and where the state of your beta website was at that point. And it was surprising not to get too in the weeds. But I've certainly seen a lot of pitch decks over the years, and many of them are pretty light on detail and pretty high on aspiration, I guess, I'll say. But, I'm just sort of curious, what, what was your, you know, you talked a little bit about the inspiration of the brand. But as you approach deciding what this business is going to look like, and how you were going to raise money and build it, what, what was the approach you took? Because it seems like you had a really unique angle on this compared to at least most of what I’ve seen.
Rachel Bentley 23:59
You're very kind, I appreciate it. I, I do think what you were seeing at, at the point that we met probably a year and a half to two years into our journey from when Carly and I had begun exploring the idea of The Citizenry, was a result of a lot of research, and a lot of careful modeling, and thinking. But Carly and I both come from a consumer insights background where we need, need to understand who the customer is, what they're motivated by what their purchase criteria are.
Rachel Bentley 24:33
And we spent almost a year after beginning to talk about The Citizenry, doing that level of primary research and identifying those sorts of things and then building out the hypothesis of what that brand and what that company could look like.
Rachel Bentley 24:49
And then we went and built a beta with our own money before we ever went out to really raise any sort of capital. And, and so we, we have approached everything about building The Citizenry from a very analytical, even conservative perspective. Just as a reflection almost of who Carly and I are. Carly, anything you would add to that?
Carly Nance 25:12
No, I was just reflecting as you were talking you know, Rachel and I have really different skill sets and bring different things to the table. But where we overlap, and almost our love language, like how we speak to each other is data strategy. And so, you know, I'm a more creative person, but I'm driven by data and strategy, and she's comes from that background, but then has a love for beautiful things, and, and creating experiences that breakthrough in the market. So, in many ways, it's the way the two of us align, because our brains think so differently about everything else.
Carly Nance 25:44
But when it comes to consumer insights, where the market opportunity is and how we go after it, that's where we can get aligned really quickly. So, I think it just manifested in our deck that way, seven years ago, early on, and it has just continued to be the guiding light and principles between the organization.
Rachel Bentley 26:01
Very fair.
Steve Dennis 26:02
What, that reminds me of a question I was going to ask, I'm kind of curious, actually, the a business that I founded a long, long time ago, was the product of a partnership where I think we had very different skill sets but we did overlap in some important ways. How does, how does that work being, being partners and, and sharing responsibility? How, just for other people that may be thinking about their leadership structure, or maybe working better with their business partner? What are some of the secrets to that over time?
Carly Nance 26:33
Sure, I was going to say, very clear camps, and very deep respect with one another in terms of decision making across those camps. But ultimately, the organization is divided clearly on which one of us is responsible and has kind of the final say, in any area. So, the way we break out the business is that you know, everything that you see not to make it too simple but falls under my camp.
Carly Nance 27:00
So, the brand, the marketing, the site, the product design, and everything that makes the business work and run and make money falls under Rachel's camp. From operations, finance, strategy, supply chain, legal accounting, all the things, I have no idea how she does all of them. But it, we have never, it, it's never been a confusion on who makes the final decision about (inaudible) because of that.
Carly Nance 27:26
And then you have to still have really deep respect and the ability to collaborate across the things because we're also spread really thin, and a lot of things that, you know, our expertise is only deep in a few areas. And so, we also have to work with one another, because we always make each other's thinking a little bit better, I guess, (inaudible). Rach, would you add anything there?
Rachel Bentley 27:53
I, I think the biggest driver for us, both in terms of why The Citizenry has been able to be as successful as it has been, and why we are still here today leading it, is that at its core, we always wanted to work together and learn from each other. And that we always felt like if you put the two of us in a room, we would learn something from the other and that the end result of what we were creating would be better. And I think it's remarkable to sit here and look back and think that that has been true over an eight-year period, without any real major ups and downs in that point. But it's just been a real sense of, I think, steadiness and constancy for both each other and then also I think the business more broadly.
Carly Nance 28:42
We've also said that our, one of our greatest goals, is to make it out on the other end, still with a deep friendship. And we maintain that even through the challenging times. And I think it has to be a goal and a priority to both of you. Or many of you, if you're going to go into something like this to say, and you want to work together for eight years that you're going to make it out on the other side because it's not easy and it's a rocky road, -
Michael LeBlanc 29:09
Yeah.
Carly Nance 29:09
For sure.
Michael LeBlanc 29:10
Rachel, let me pick up on the discussion around not just building a company but growing the company. So, talk about the work you've been doing to grow the company and, and putting the capital that you raised to work. Where you know, where do you start? How do you how do you approach that from you know, you got a blank sheet of paper, and you have $1 in front of you and how do you, how do you start prioritizing and building for the future with the resources at hand?
Rachel Bentley 29:34
For, as I think it's been very clear, we started The Citizenry largely focused on decor items that were very statement making within your own home, but on the soft good side, right. The rugs, the pillows, the blankets, and as we are building the business, we are becoming much more of that whole home player that you can shop any part of your home. For, so not only can you buy the rug and the pillow from us that really defines your aesthetic and defines your style. But you can buy the best linen bedding in the world, and you can buy the softest, most durable waffle towels from Japan.
Rachel Bentley 30:14
And we're thinking more broadly as we build out this business. And that is even taking us into hard goods and furniture and where you are doing the nightstands, and the sofas, and the beds, in that world as well. So, I think it's really building the business, both from a product standpoint, from a product standpoint into that whole home brand, but then also becoming more and more of an omni-channel brand, right?
We have one retail store in New York, it's been incredibly successful for us and continuing to build out both our retail strategy, but then also just our channel strategy more broadly, overall.
Michael LeBlanc 30:52
How do you think about the cadence of that growth? You know, in other words, we've used the word sustainable, let's use it a different context, you know, the growth that is sustainable, not too fast, not too slow, at the right pace, like do you have a framework in mind that you think about how, how and where and how fast we can go based on what, what you think will build a company to last?
Rachel Bentley 31:12
I do think there are rhythms to that, right like this, the year and a half period that we are in right now, post Series B, is really a building period for us. And we may not be chasing sales at the same level, because we're laying some of the infrastructure, and some of the foundational building blocks within our team to be able to handle that growth. And so, I think they're, they're really for lack of a better word, rhythms to how a business grows in scales and when you hit tipping points where you need to go back and rethink your strategy or invest more deeply behind the scenes, and then points in which you're really leaning in and growing as much as you possibly can from an external perspective.
Steve Dennis 31:58
So, it seems, and I, and I know we've had discussions on and off about this over the years, because like one of my little side projects seems to be getting into, which is, you know, incredibly fascinating customer acquisition costs, lifetime value, all those kinds of things. But you seem to have resisted the temptation to do what a lot of the other digitally native vertical brands, I don't know, if you'd like to be thought of in that respect. But in any event, many of them have done sort of this moonshot approach to building a brand where they've raised a ton of money, thrown a lot of it at, at branding, and digital marketing, and, and so forth, and then have kind of woken up with a hangover. Can you just talk a little bit about how you've, you've thought about the marketing side of it in particular, and how maybe that analytic based approaches caused you to take a different approach? I don't know, Carly, or Rachel, if you want to take that one on?
Carly Nance 32:49
I think we've always been more data driven. And, and that's clear and how we've answered some of these questions. But we've always built the business around a lifetime value play. And it was never about a single product, or a single category, because we knew that, that would just be to your point, chasing an acquisition and having a hangover, but building the business from the ground up and thinking about CAC to LTV ratios, and how much we could spend at different times based on where we are there and just thinking about our metrics more holistically in that sense.
Michael LeBlanc 33:24
You know, this has been basically a masterclass of entrepreneurship and, and, and growth. So, it's really been a treat to listen. I have, I have a funny question for given the state of the business growth, what's next? I mean, it seems like lots is happening, you know, would I see perhaps some, at some point be able to buy your product from here in Canada? Do you envision wholesale as part of the formula? What, how are you thinking about what comes next?
Rachel Bentley 33:48
Lots of exciting things. I think, for us, first and foremost, it's going to (inaudible) continuing to build out the products that we offer, and then second, to really be focused on building out our retail presence. So, those are the next two big things. But that's a three-to-five-year strategy. So, it won't happen overnight. But we're, we're getting there.
Michael LeBlanc 34:07
Fantastic.
Carly Nance 34:09
We’re really on the path to being this go to destination for modern global citizens. And we know what that means is a whole home offering and an omni-channel brand. And so, we have you know, Rachel alluded to it, we're building out furniture in all areas of the home and making plans for additional channels and how the brand manifests there to grow into that broader vision.
Rachel Bentley 34:33
And then I think that beyond that there's so much that we're going to be rolling out in the next couple of years in terms of setting new standards for sustainability and for fair trade. And that's, I think, are really an exciting spot for Carly and I to, to get to be focused on as well.
Carly Nance 34:44
That's a good point.
Michael LeBlanc 34:52
Well, you know, this has been wonderful and when Steve introduced the brand to me and he said you are truly remarkable and I have to echo that after listening to both the business strategy and just the vision, the merchandising vision behind it. So, you know on behalf of Steve, thanks so much for joining us on Remarkable Retail. It's been a real treat to listen, to get a peek inside, how you think about building business and, and what you see coming out from the other side of the journey. So, thanks again. Rachel and Carly for making the time to speak with Steve and I.
Rachel Bentley 35:22
Of course, Michael, Steve, thank you very much for having us.
Carly Nance 35:25
It's been fun.
Michael LeBlanc 35:26
If you like what you heard, please follow us on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform so you can catch up with all our great interviews and insights and new episodes will show up each and every week. Be sure to check out our YouTube channel. And last but not least, tell your friends and colleagues in the retail industry all about us.
Steve Dennis 35:41
And I'm Steve Dennis, author of the bestselling book, ‘The Remarkable Retail: How to Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption’. You can learn more about me, my consulting and keynote speaking at stevenpdennis.com
Michael LeBlanc 35:55
And I'm Michael LeBlanc, producer and co-host of the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, The Voice of Retail podcast, keynote speaker and host of the all new Last Request Barbecue cooking show on YouTube. You can learn even more about me on LinkedIn, or meleblanc.co.
Have a safe week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Citizenry, brand, building, thinking, Rachel, world, product, Carly, people, Canada Goose, supply chain, talk, point, consumers, retail, approach, bit, strategy, podcast